Digital sustainability and Artificial Intelligence is all the rage these days. There are universities doing research, op-eds in newspapers, and even several articles in this space talking about artificial intelligence and machine learning and how it will affect our lives in the years to come. Unfortunately, most of the focus has been on how it can be used to improve the bottom lines for businesses around the world. Don’t get us wrong, we’re not knocking the profit motive. However, we are knocking the idea that you have to keep on making more and more profit. That drive has a way of dehumanizing people (and frankly even the people with the drive) and making people lose focus on the things that really matter in the world.
One of the effects of the constant drive for more profits is the drive to consume more things. More and more we look like Huxley’s Brave New World in which consumerism is promoted by the state, to the extent they put out slogans like “the less stitches, the more riches” to promote people buying new clothes instead of mending what they already have. Every economic ‘stimulus’ is given in the hopes that people use that money to go buy a bunch of stuff to keep things moving. Consumerism is a huge problem in the modern world. This is true both spiritually and materially, though for this article we’ll be focused on the material problems.
Whether it is the government or business telling us that the way to happiness is the latest and greatest smartphone, TV, car, etc. this creates problems. All of that stuff requires resources to make. Minerals, trees, oils and who knows what are used every time something like that is purchased. And the old goes into landfills, which are gigantic, so gigantic in some places that people literally live on them in places like India, making a living off reselling some of the things in them. We’ve gotten better at reusing a lot of that stuff, being able to recycle things made of the rare minerals mined in Africa or melting down plastics so they can be remolded into something else. However, there is a finite amount of stuff on the planet and a growing population that will naturally keep using that stuff. We might well find ourselves able to get into space and use resources there before much longer, but it wouldn’t hurt to also reduce our dependency on the drive to constantly have more stuff as well.
Which brings us back to our primary issue for this article, how can we use our digital technology to reduce that need? How can we use things like AI to make things more sustainable? Fortunately, our ability to collect and analyze data is just as unparalleled as our increased drive to consumerism. Improved analytics can be used for a variety of efforts that will make farming more efficient, enabling people to get the most food out of a plot of land while doing the least amount of harm to the environment.
We can learn how to build safer, smaller, and lighter vehicles so that they use fewer resources, are more fuel efficient and still allow people to get from point A to point B. AI can be used to study the effects of different zoning laws. Would it be better to allow more mixing of business and residential areas so people don’t need to drive ten minutes whenever they need a gallon of milk?
There is a lot of potential here. And a lot of ways that potential can be undermined. We’ll be exploring both of those a bit more next time.
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Digital sustainability and Artificial Intelligence is all the rage these days. There are universities doing research, op-eds in newspapers, and even several articles in this space talking about artificial intelligence and machine learning and how it will affect our lives in the years to come.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to TARTLE Cast with your hosts Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanity steps into the future, and source data defines the path.
Alexander McCaig (00:27):
Good morning, and welcome back to TARTLE Cast. Thank you everybody for being avid listeners. I know we have a lot of episodes we put out here. So, if you are paying attention, good for you.
Jason Rigby (00:35):
Yeah, Alex, I'm triggered.
Alexander McCaig (00:36):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (00:36):
I got a lot of anxiety right now.
Alexander McCaig (00:39):
I know you've got a lot of anxiety.
Jason Rigby (00:40):
Do you know what make me anxious?
Alexander McCaig (00:42):
What?
Jason Rigby (00:43):
Is that there's 7.8 billion people in this world, and in 30 years, we're going to have 9.8 billion.
Alexander McCaig (00:44):
Okay.
Jason Rigby (00:44):
That's 2 billion more people.
Alexander McCaig (00:48):
That's a lot of mouths to feed, and we're already doing a poor job of feeding people that are starving.
Jason Rigby (00:53):
And we got so many fronts that we're struggling on.
Alexander McCaig (00:56):
Think about how, yeah. It's just...
Jason Rigby (00:57):
What are you going to do, Alex?
Alexander McCaig (00:58):
We can feed people.
Jason Rigby (00:59):
Let's figure this out right now.
Alexander McCaig (01:00):
Yeah. So, the question is are you going to use artificial intelligence, Jason, to exacerbate consumption, or are you going to use it to help solve the consumption problem? Woo.
Jason Rigby (01:07):
Hmm. There we go.
Alexander McCaig (01:09):
Very interesting. So, what's the name of this report here?
Jason Rigby (01:12):
It's by theedgemarkets.com. It's My Say digitainability combining digitalization. And I just had a mini-stroke right there.
Alexander McCaig (01:22):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (01:22):
Digitalization and sustainability.
Alexander McCaig (01:24):
Yeah, sustainability. So, why do human beings eat food? So we can sustain ourselves. Right? Interesting.
Jason Rigby (01:31):
Donuts.
Alexander McCaig (01:31):
You know, the earth has certain things that required of it so that it can self-sustain, but we are yanking the resources away from the earth so it can't feed itself. I hope that makes sense. And then if you get 2 billion more people yanking things away with rapid urbanization, all this other stuff, more consumer consumption, that's a problem.
Jason Rigby (01:51):
Yeah, for thousands of years, we've just take, take, take, take, take.
Alexander McCaig (01:54):
Yeah, take, take, take, take, take.
Jason Rigby (01:55):
When are we going to give back too?
Alexander McCaig (01:57):
Yeah, when are you going to get back? Where are you going to strike a balance?
Jason Rigby (01:59):
Yeah, that's all we need.
Alexander McCaig (02:00):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (02:01):
It's just all negative polarity all the time. When can we put the positive in there?
Alexander McCaig (02:05):
We got to put some positive in there. Our battery in our magnet's totally out of whack right now. So, let's go through this, and let's talk about some sweet points in here. I thought this article was quite fantastic.
Jason Rigby (02:16):
Yeah, it is, yeah.
Alexander McCaig (02:16):
Tee me up.
Jason Rigby (02:17):
So, we look at the current level of consumption in developed economies is made possible through the intensive use of domestic resources, plus the ongoing flow of resources from developing economies which you had talked about.
Alexander McCaig (02:29):
Logistics and supply chain. It's like feeding, it's just feeding the system.
Jason Rigby (02:33):
So, let's say, let's assume that this level of consumption that we have in Europe, Canada, United States, that we make it equal for everyone in the world.
Alexander McCaig (02:45):
We'd be screwed.
Jason Rigby (02:47):
Think about this.
Alexander McCaig (02:48):
No, this would be even worse.
Jason Rigby (02:49):
That's what I'm saying.
Alexander McCaig (02:50):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (02:52):
And, and so we say everybody in India, China, Brazil, all these places, Russia, so now we're consuming just as much as everybody is in the United States. Now on top of that, Alex, we're going to add 2 billion more people.
Alexander McCaig (03:07):
Can't do it. Can't do it.
Jason Rigby (03:09):
So, there's transition to a sustainable world is by 2050. Why is that too late?
Alexander McCaig (03:15):
Why is that too late? Because once you've already gotten up to that point, you put it into this sort of what they call the catalytic spurs and just... And then it just keeps getting worse. You get the worst snowball effect you could ever ask for. You can't wait until 2050. Okay? And if you're going to have a boom of people, you need to figure out how to unboom consumption.
Jason Rigby (03:35):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (03:36):
All right. It's as simple as that.
Jason Rigby (03:39):
This is where like Ready Player One plays such a beautiful role.
Alexander McCaig (03:43):
I didn't know that was after a book.
Jason Rigby (03:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Alexander McCaig (03:44):
I only recently realized there was it book written first and then it was turned into a film.
Jason Rigby (03:47):
And that's where it plays a beautiful role because if you can keep people in their small apartments and keep them hooked on virtual reality, then they're creating less of a footprint.
Alexander McCaig (03:56):
Yeah. Or it's simple-
Jason Rigby (03:57):
If they're having more fun in the other world.
Alexander McCaig (04:00):
Yeah. If you're in the US, don't eat enough food that would feed four people. Eat enough that just feeds one.
Jason Rigby (04:05):
Could you imagine how-
Alexander McCaig (04:07):
People do it every meal.
Jason Rigby (04:07):
Whoever comes up with this virtual world is going to be like the next Google, Facebook, all combined.
Alexander McCaig (04:13):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (04:14):
And then all the advertising and all the ways to try to visually stimulate us to keep us on the system. Netflix will be gone, all that. We'll just be in this.
Alexander McCaig (04:22):
So, you're saying that this is like a world where people don't even like do tourism.
Jason Rigby (04:26):
No, the tourism would be done through... Like if I can pay 10 bucks tonight, 9:95, and I visually, physically, mentally feel like I'm in Bali-
Alexander McCaig (04:36):
Hm. Interesting.
Jason Rigby (04:37):
... and I'm going to an EDM concert with coconuts all around me and at a beach.
Alexander McCaig (04:42):
What about all the sickos that do all that Sub-Saharan hunting of those endangered species?
Jason Rigby (04:47):
Oh yeah, that could be done, yeah.
Alexander McCaig (04:47):
Why don't you just get your sick fix on virtual reality?
Jason Rigby (04:50):
Yeah, they'll have that. I mean, there's got to be limits to it, obviously.
Alexander McCaig (04:54):
I don't want to take down the white rhino. Leave it alone.
Jason Rigby (04:56):
I mean, I get the adult side of things, all of that. But yeah, if you actually feel like you're hunting somewhere and you're not hurting the animal, do that.
Alexander McCaig (05:05):
Or take the aspect of like Candy Crush and buying digital things. Just do that instead of actually going out and buying more stuff you don't need.
Jason Rigby (05:13):
Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (05:13):
Own it digitally and then never actually have to go pick it up because it doesn't have any value anyway.
Jason Rigby (05:18):
Yeah. I mean, I don't even want to get into that. So, get back to the article because now I'm starting to [crosstalk 00:05:24].
Alexander McCaig (05:24):
Do you want to imagine being in a house with more square footage, go ahead. But then I'm going to make you clean it, and then you're going to be like, "I wish my house wasn't so big."
Jason Rigby (05:30):
Yeah. I had that situation when I... Transforming systems globally at the scale and speed required, exponential progress, to realize sustainable development calls for unprecedent level of action and coordination across all industries and sectors of society. So, let's stay here. How do we put pressure on government and corporate identities to be-
Alexander McCaig (05:51):
I know.
Jason Rigby (05:52):
You know what I'm talking about.
Alexander McCaig (05:52):
Yeah, you have to show them that climate instability is going to, one, cripple their profits because that's all they care about at this moment. You got to show them that. And then for governments, you have to show them that climate instability is going to create civil unrest in their country. Governments don't want instability. Okay? And corporations do not want a knock at the profit margins.
Jason Rigby (06:17):
Right.
Alexander McCaig (06:18):
So, if you can highlight both of those things and you've got to say, "Listen, we've got to come together. If you want to sustain this good life that you've had, then you really, all of us, have to come together right this moment, especially with the growth in our populations."
Jason Rigby (06:30):
Well, you know I'm a history buff, and when I look at Nazi Germany with what happened there.
Alexander McCaig (06:36):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (06:37):
And then you had mass inflation, unemployment. And so, then the Nazi party came in and decided to say, "Hey, let's build make it wartime."
Alexander McCaig (06:49):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (06:49):
So, and I'm leading into the article talks about this. It was called TODT that they put together. I mean, there was a lot of slave labor with that, but they had that. So, everybody, all the youth and everybody were able to work, built the Autobahn and all this, great bridges and stuff.
Alexander McCaig (07:05):
Yeah, but what was it for?
Jason Rigby (07:06):
Yeah, exactly. Wartime. And then you had all the factories booming, making planes and stuff like that. So, they put everybody to work. Inflation, of course, went down. And so, this is what he's saying, John Elkington, a prominent sustainability expert, he said this, this is a great quote, "Achieving exponential progress requires a scale of collective effort rarely seen outside of wartime conditions."
Alexander McCaig (07:28):
Yeah, and so, listen, the Nazi regime did it well for negative purposes.
Jason Rigby (07:35):
We did too. And Great Britain did too.
Alexander McCaig (07:38):
Yes, fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough.
Jason Rigby (07:41):
Fair enough, bro.
Alexander McCaig (07:42):
Yeah, fair enough. But what we need to do is that sort of coalition of effort needs to happen towards something that is for the longevity of all of the human race. That's what's important.
Jason Rigby (07:52):
So, can we declare war on climate instability?
Alexander McCaig (07:55):
Without it having to be an actual war wanting to hurt somebody.
Jason Rigby (07:58):
An actual war and then can we take our efforts, the Military Industrial Complex and make it the Environmental Industrial Complex.
Alexander McCaig (08:03):
Yeah, I like that.
Jason Rigby (08:04):
There's lots of money to be made off of this.
Alexander McCaig (08:06):
That slaps.
Jason Rigby (08:07):
Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (08:07):
Environmental Industrial Complex.
Jason Rigby (08:09):
Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (08:09):
Ooh.
Jason Rigby (08:10):
And then we all get together, have a coalition of this and then countries and we can-
Alexander McCaig (08:16):
We should stop saying coalition because that's the basis of fascism.
Jason Rigby (08:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alexander McCaig (08:20):
Yeah, okay.
Jason Rigby (08:20):
I'm going to write it down.
Alexander McCaig (08:21):
Thanks to the Romans, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's my history buff kind of thing. Word etymology. All right. So, what does that lead to?
Jason Rigby (08:28):
No, I think every country should get one vote.
Alexander McCaig (08:30):
My lat itches. Oh, that's better. Okay.
Jason Rigby (08:33):
Yeah. Every country should get one vote.
Alexander McCaig (08:35):
What do you mean one vote?
Jason Rigby (08:36):
That always worries everybody.
Alexander McCaig (08:37):
Oh no-
Jason Rigby (08:38):
Everybody's like, "No, no, no, no. United States, we're bigger. We have more of an economic. We should have 27 votes."
Alexander McCaig (08:42):
Why? [crosstalk 00:08:43]
Jason Rigby (08:43):
But what if every country got one vote?
Alexander McCaig (08:44):
Yeah. Well, make sure we smash it.
Jason Rigby (08:45):
So, United States gets one vote. So, out of these 200-something countries we have, they each come together for environmental causes where they're going to put their resources together and then they vote.
Alexander McCaig (08:53):
Like they're actually going to put their resources towards it?
Jason Rigby (08:56):
Well, see, this is the problem because it's like, now it's like who benefits who and who benefits me and all that.
Alexander McCaig (09:01):
That's right.
Jason Rigby (09:01):
Now I've got to cut deals because-
Alexander McCaig (09:02):
That's right. I don't want to help somebody else. That's what the countries are saying.
Jason Rigby (09:07):
So, powering good amid tough times, in the article that talks about this. So, it talks about the COVID-19 pandemic, severely disrupted lives, economies across the globe, it spurred governments to seek out new technological tools, urban solutions that can address the current crisis. Now, it's a driver of our next stage of economic growth. We've talked about the fourth industrial revolution.
Alexander McCaig (09:27):
Correct.
Jason Rigby (09:29):
As one's knowledge of sustainability grows, when you speak to us, the realization of how much there is still to know may be overwhelming.
Alexander McCaig (09:35):
Yeah, correct. I call it going down the rabbit hole. You know where in Zoolander, he said, "Once you pull the thread of the sweater, the whole thing unravels." It's just great stuff. But the point is the second you begin to focus on something, you're like, "Wow, I didn't really realize everything that was involved with this, everything connected with this." So, if you can find some way to gently push people down that path of knowledge and awareness around something, help them educate themselves, and then also see the impact of their efforts, then you're doing something really special. Now we're getting somewhere, but they need to take those steps down the rabbit hole.
Jason Rigby (10:11):
Yeah. And I'd like to use the sort of rabbit hole for myself analogy and you can correlate with this is fog. No one likes to be in a fog mentally.
Alexander McCaig (10:19):
Or driving.
Jason Rigby (10:20):
Well, you know, it's changed war. I mean, like George Washington was able to move his troops through because there was a morning fog, and they couldn't see the ships. There's like this Roman myth about fogs would come in on the battle when they're in valleys and they would turn on each other through the gods.
Alexander McCaig (10:34):
That's crazy.
Jason Rigby (10:35):
I mean, so fog. And I felt like that's where we're at now. I feel like there's a lot of people that have, especially in developed countries, there's a lot of people that have good intentions. We're buying more organic. We're buying more sustainable.
Alexander McCaig (10:45):
Buy they're fogged out though.
Jason Rigby (10:46):
Yes. Yeah. It's like, "Okay, I can consume good products. Other than that, what else am I supposed to?"
Alexander McCaig (10:52):
Yeah. So, what do I do? Check it out. You ready for this?
Jason Rigby (10:57):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (10:58):
What do people do on the weekends here? They got buy stuff.
Jason Rigby (11:02):
Yeah. And have parties and barbecue.
Alexander McCaig (11:04):
It's buy, buy. Okay, I bought that, now I want to go buy more. That's all they're doing is buying more, constantly.
Jason Rigby (11:10):
But here's my question. Whenever we think of environmental policies, we think the government's taking care of this for us.
Alexander McCaig (11:17):
No, it's not. People need to take care of it for themselves. It is their planet. It's not the government's planet. Could we be clear about that? Everything you consume is a direct driver of these things that go and indirectly affect these governments. That's what it is.
Jason Rigby (11:32):
Yeah. And he said, the more that he got into this was like a...This article were greatly written, greatly written.
Alexander McCaig (11:38):
Well-written.
Jason Rigby (11:39):
Well-written. I was trying to use the word great in some format because I love this style of writing, but he talks about taking a helicopter view and looking at these issues, and then he made an amazing reference. It's so simple, and I love it. He said, "I began to realize that no matter where you pull the blanket towards, some part of the body is unlikely to be uncovered."
Alexander McCaig (11:57):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (11:57):
Because we all hate that at nighttime.
Alexander McCaig (11:59):
That's like me when I'm sleeping. Yeah, I know.
Jason Rigby (11:59):
Yeah, your feet's cold. And then you... I sleep by myself but you have a fiance who pulls the blankets from you.
Alexander McCaig (12:05):
I'm 6'5. Yeah, I call it the alligator death roll. You know when you just grab the sheets and you're just like spin, spin, spin.
Jason Rigby (12:11):
I put the blanket over here. Oh, this is uncovered.
Alexander McCaig (12:13):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (12:14):
I put the blanket here and I think that's what creates the fog.
Alexander McCaig (12:16):
No, it does create the fog, but it's like, "Where's my equilibrium? I can't equalize this environment."
Jason Rigby (12:21):
Yes. So, in other words, it says sustainability issues are heavily intertwined. It can not be tackled in isolation one from another. We've been saying this with the big seven.
Alexander McCaig (12:28):
All of these things are absolutely interconnected. And to talk about that interconnection, we will be back for part two.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Thank you for listening to TARTLE Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanity steps into the future, and source data defines the path. What's your data worth?
