Digitainability is a bit of an odd term. It doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue. So what is it? It’s the idea of using our digital technology to get to a more sustainable economy. We talked a lot about that last time without explicitly using the term. It will involve making use of our ability to collect and analyze data in order to identify places where we can be more efficient, to recycle more, places where policy can be refined to help promote greater sustainability.
One of the key uses of AI will be in working in phases to get from where we are now to where we want to be. Imagine a giant ocean liner trying to make a turn. It doesn’t exactly happen on a dime. Trying to force that ship to turn too tightly risks literally breaking the ship apart and killing everyone aboard. The global, or even your local economic system isn’t terribly different. Trying to change everything all at once will cause massive damage that will do far more harm than good. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to change. Too often, the fact that changing too much too fast is risky has too often been used as an excuse for not changing at all. So, change we must, but without losing sight of the fact that we have to be careful with how we do it. Business as usual may not be able to continue but business completely upended won’t help much either.
One way that AI would be of immense help is if we could take all the information we have about how certain changes have affected an area over a certain period of time. That can provide a lot of data for an AI to process in order to determine the effect similar changes will have in a given area. What’s even better is if the people working on such a problem made use of TARTLE and our resources in order to do this. By making use of our data marketplace, they can get real time data from people who are being directly affected by policy changes as they happen. That can then lead to near real time refinements on the ground as well as improving the model with better data. This can lead to determining how best to transition to a sustainable economy in a way that won’t completely upset the apple cart.
There is a strong and growing demand for this kind of shift. You see this in the drive for renewable energy, the tiny house movement, and even in boycotts. People will often boycott a product if they think the product is being produced through unethical means, such as palm oil boycotts in Europe. Critics will point out that the company will just shift to a different market that doesn’t care about how the palm oil was produced. The business might go so far as to treat their employees in third world countries even worse in order to make up for lost profits.
While this is probably true, it’s also a total copout. It denies that the people running the business have any agency themselves, that they simply have to do things the way they do them in order to even exist. Obviously we at TARTLE completely reject such an idea. We have to be able to expect real change out of companies as well as individuals. Pretending that certain entities just aren’t capable of that change is remarkably unhelpful and will actually make changing to something better even harder.
That’s another one of the ways we can use AI to our benefit. Our data can be used to educate the recalcitrant, to show them the impact of different choices on the world as a whole. We can then hope that people will make the kinds of decisions needed to build a truly better world.
What’s your data worth? Sign up and join the TARTLE Marketplace with this link here.
It will involve making use of our ability to collect and analyze data in order to identify places where we can be more efficient, to recycle more, places where policy can be refined to help promote greater sustainability.
Announcer (00:07):
Welcome to TARTLE Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanities steps into the future and source data defines the path. The path.
Alexander McCaig (00:24):
Welcome back to part two of our digit ... digitana ... digit ...
Jason Rigby (00:30):
Digitanability.
Alexander McCaig (00:30):
Digitanability article here on TARTLE Cast. You know, I was just thinking real quick. Do you remember in The Matrix, those things were like the metal arms that would come through?
Jason Rigby (00:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alexander McCaig (00:41):
That's what all of our cords look like in the studio.
Jason Rigby (00:45):
Yeah. Unfortunately. I mean, you go, have you ever seen like a live studio?
Alexander McCaig (00:50):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (00:50):
Oh my God. The mounts and chords and stuff-
Alexander McCaig (00:53):
They're everywhere.
Jason Rigby (00:54):
Everywhere. Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (00:54):
But they have it under management. You and I are just out of control.
Jason Rigby (00:57):
Oh yeah, we have cords everywhere.
Alexander McCaig (00:59):
Yeah. Okay. So what's [inaudible 00:01:00]
Jason Rigby (01:00):
So combining digitation and sustainability, digitanability. So we're going to get into what I want to kind of get into is how each of these systems are holistic that we have to have an holistic approach with them. And the article talks about this, that they require consultation with many stakeholders and carefully planned transitions to allow new ways to phase in business as usual, because business as usual with what we're doing now has to stop.
Alexander McCaig (01:29):
As usual is killing us as usual.
Jason Rigby (01:31):
So how ... We can't just stop something abruptly. You can't take a system that's been in place and refined over and over and over again, to be the most efficient, have the best ROI, and then stop it all of a sudden and drastically go in a different direction. So phasing is really important.
Alexander McCaig (01:45):
Phasing is huge, right? And so that phasing has happened with the change in practices over time. And a lot of people are like, "Oh, let's just remove the squeaky wheel." Well, the squeaky wheel is doing a job right now, so we can't remove it altogether, but we can start to repair it over time to something that becomes way more efficient and way more beneficial.
Alexander McCaig (02:02):
But taking that holistic aspect that you're talking about, everything's interconnected Jason.
Jason Rigby (02:07):
Right.
Alexander McCaig (02:07):
So we need to look at what that interconnectedness is and how we can actually effectuate on it. And these people that are stakeholders are human beings.
Alexander McCaig (02:14):
So one of the great things we have a TARTLE is called the Tdex. The Tdex actually shows the impact of people sharing their data and sharing their earnings towards these causes that are effectuating against these current problems that we have. And it gives them a holistic pictorial and quantitative representation of that impact. So you at your level, at the micro level can see your impact. And then businesses can also see the macro impact of what's going on across the entire marketplace. So then they can be like, "We now know what the people need. We bought their data. We can see where they're putting their weight into, with their earnings, through these donations. We need to start to transition towards these things." This is what the people want. Do what they want. And now we have something to show specifically what is happening.
Alexander McCaig (03:00):
That's all happening on TARTLE. That's called that Tdex. It's a phenomenal thing that we have, and I'm excited about it, because I like people being able to visualize that impact of them in their life.
Jason Rigby (03:10):
Yeah. And I think a great example and they talk about this in the article is consumers refusal to buy products. And they talk about like this big move in Europe boycotting palm oil.
Alexander McCaig (03:19):
Yeah. Because we know that palm oil, a lot of it comes from areas that rainforest gets knocked down in Indonesia and then replanted with these palms. And then in doing so you kill that species diversity, which is extremely important.
Jason Rigby (03:33):
Like orangutans, or they talk about in the article-
Alexander McCaig (03:35):
Orangutans-
Jason Rigby (03:36):
Their population declines.
Alexander McCaig (03:37):
Tigers, all those things decline because ...
Jason Rigby (03:40):
Deforestation.
Alexander McCaig (03:41):
My Orville Redenbacher popcorn uses palm oil because it's 5 cents cheaper than using, I don't know, real butter or whatever it might be. Like you're kidding? People will pay that extra 5 cents. Because you thought it was beneficial for you as a corporation, you are doing them a service, you actually did the world a disservice by forcing the logistics and supply chains to adapt to this thing that was crippling the planet.
Jason Rigby (04:04):
Yeah. And so, with these drastic measures with not phasing in and they were using this example, which I may trigger several spheres unforeseen accessory issues.
Alexander McCaig (04:13):
Sure.
Jason Rigby (04:13):
Under pressure to sell their stock, palm oil producers may turn to markets where sustainability considerations, regulations, standards are more relaxed.
Alexander McCaig (04:19):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (04:19):
So they go into different countries like you're seeing now with tobacco, cigarettes. They're going into third world countries and stuff.
Alexander McCaig (04:26):
They'll go where there's no surgeon general.
Jason Rigby (04:28):
Yeah. A decrease in sales and profit may induce producers to create further savings and production that may affect the quality of output and workers' wages. Have you seen this side note? This isn't right. [crosstalk 00:04:39] Have you seen Australia's packaging on cigarettes?
Alexander McCaig (04:42):
Yeah. It's phenomenal. They show like your lungs, the actual organs and stuff like that.
Jason Rigby (04:45):
Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (04:46):
But here's the crazy part. That's what the suppliers and like these businesses, because someone says don't use it, you say, we'll just go to the next person that'll use it because they're a little iffy on their morals.
Jason Rigby (04:58):
Well, this is even, this is ... Yeah, so they can relax, but this is even crazy. Listen to this. A decrease in sales and profit may induce producers to create further savings in production that may affect the quality of output and workers' wages, leading to the worsening of working conditions of foreign workers in producing countries.
Alexander McCaig (05:14):
No.
Jason Rigby (05:15):
Because we're ... We asked to see-
Alexander McCaig (05:17):
That's crap. You know what it is? Businesses shell it out on the people and they won't take the responsibility. They're like, "Well, we can't lose profits, so we got to take it away from our workers." No, you got to use something else. Okay? You need to figure it out. And if it's not going to work ... Listen, if this is something that was truly good, it has to work for all, correct?
Jason Rigby (05:35):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (05:35):
And if it's not working and you're seeing that, do not put your debilitated profit margins, debilitating profit margins and shell that off onto other people and take away their lives because you've chose to work with a resource that is inefficient in your business model, just like the current milk industry in the US. It would cease to exist if there were not government subsidies supporting it.
Jason Rigby (05:56):
Yeah. And it said like a product boycott in Europe may also trigger actions in the producing countries, which could impact the imports of other products. Do you stabilize trade practices or stop or delay free trade agreement negotiations? And this is just to mention but a few. When planning or executing any interventions, it is important to do no harm, which involves taking a step back and looking at the broader context and mitigating potential negative effects on the social fabric, the economy and the environment.
Alexander McCaig (06:22):
Yeah. Well guess what, some things in the economy needed to be shook out.
Jason Rigby (06:25):
I think those should be reversed. I think it should be environment.
Alexander McCaig (06:27):
Environment, thank you.
Jason Rigby (06:28):
Social fabric. And then the economy.
Alexander McCaig (06:31):
And then the economy. I do not like the progression of how that was actually put in there. Why do they keep putting money first? No one is going to care about money if you have no planet to spend your money on.
Jason Rigby (06:39):
Yeah. And they said in the context of policy making at an international level, the blanket analogy is more pronounced. Why would the citizens of a country commit to hard climate change mitigation policies if they do not know whether other states will implement similar policies?
Alexander McCaig (06:52):
You want to know something? Because you shouldn't give a shit if somebody else is going to do it. It should be so important to you that you want to be the example.
Jason Rigby (06:57):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (06:58):
And if they don't want to jump along on that band wagon, that is their choice, but you need to do everything within your own power to be responsible for what you need to be responsible for.
Jason Rigby (07:08):
Yeah. And I like his statement. Listen to this.
Alexander McCaig (07:10):
Yes.
Jason Rigby (07:11):
Or her statement. If a nation does not believe that justice should guide international relations, why should it not try to free ride other nations' hard work? I like that. If a nation does not believe that justice should guide international relations. Is it profit guiding international relations or is it justice to the environment and to people?
Alexander McCaig (07:31):
Oh, that's a great question. Well, to me, and I guess to everybody else, corporations run governments. And so I'm going to say profits go first.
Jason Rigby (07:38):
Because number three on our big seven is human rights.
Alexander McCaig (07:41):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (07:41):
And so we look at climate stability, we look at human rights, and this holistic approach where they all are interconnecting. And we're seeing this with moving the blanket around, and I'm going to use that blanket analogy a lot from here on out. Thank you. This government and corporate transparency is number six. So all of these are playing in among themselves. And in this field that we look at, and if we want to look at like a war time field, it's very, very simple to them.
Alexander McCaig (08:02):
In the fog.
Jason Rigby (08:02):
Yeah, in the fog, it's like, "Oh, okay, what can we as humans control?" Well, one, we elect these officials into office.
Alexander McCaig (08:13):
We can control [crosstalk 00:08:14]
Jason Rigby (08:14):
They're puppets. They're puppets to us and puppets to corporations.
Alexander McCaig (08:17):
Sure.
Jason Rigby (08:18):
That's what a politician is.
Alexander McCaig (08:19):
You wouldn't have lobbyists. Lobbyists are the guys with the strings.
Jason Rigby (08:22):
Yeah. They're the palm oil guys that are coming in with their slick back palm oil hair.
Alexander McCaig (08:25):
Ew. Yeah, I can almost picture that for a second.
Jason Rigby (08:27):
All greasy, yeah.
Alexander McCaig (08:29):
Yeah. You know? And that's how they talk.
Jason Rigby (08:30):
They're lizards. Reptilians.
Alexander McCaig (08:38):
Yeah, these reptilians coming. No, but that's when it's .. Like you need to look at those things, right? And guess what, when something gets covered, something gets uncovered, right? It's about striking that balance. So it's, how is it that we start to share this responsibility? Because one person can't hide underneath this blanket for very long. Places need to be exposed. Right? You got to weed out the bad stuff. Right? And there's going to be some pains, some birth pangs or whatever you want to call it.
Jason Rigby (09:01):
Right.
Alexander McCaig (09:02):
Of this new environment of ESG and climate awareness and education towards this. It's going to be uncomfortable.
Jason Rigby (09:09):
But I think if we're creative enough, if we're creative enough, we can solve these issues and they be profitable.
Alexander McCaig (09:21):
We're doing that at TARTLE.
Jason Rigby (09:22):
Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.
Alexander McCaig (09:23):
This is not a zero sum game. You got to lose the mindset of zero sum game. Get that stupid crap economic principle out of your mind. They were written by economists, and economists change their principles all the time, because no one's found one that works. Remove that from your brain. It's not zero sum.
Jason Rigby (09:44):
Yeah. And he said this, and I think this is very important. It is important to make sure that whatever policies and investments are made, they are equitable and conducive to the systematic transformations necessary to a more sustainable world. So that transition. But I like the word equitable.
Alexander McCaig (10:01):
You know what your vision is. You got to go get there. But you have to make sure when you're making those decisions is for the good of all as you're doing it.
Jason Rigby (10:08):
Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (10:08):
Okay? You have to share in that. It needs to be equitable. If you don't do that, you go back to that zero sum game ideology. You drive that idea of competition and you continue to cripple one another. We cannot survive off that crippling nature.
Jason Rigby (10:22):
No.
Alexander McCaig (10:22):
We can't handle 2 billion more people if everybody's eye for an eye. It doesn't work like that.
Jason Rigby (10:28):
Yeah. And this is our big seven, but he has these key transformations, and it includes this: advancement in human capacity through improvement and education in healthcare.
Alexander McCaig (10:36):
Education's like number one. We have this right here, educational access. If I got a stable climate, now I have to continue to educate.
Jason Rigby (10:43):
Yeah. Responsible consumption and production.
Alexander McCaig (10:45):
Responsible consumption. That's just a bad dopamine hit habit that we've been driven into. And with the onset of artificial intelligence, it's been exacerbating how we spend. It's become efficient in almost driving those small dopamine hits, how marketers and people who market these products or services wants you to come and buy them more often.
Jason Rigby (11:12):
Yeah. And then decarbonization of energy.
Alexander McCaig (11:14):
Yeah, I mean, we talked about this. Like what are you doing burning something that's already anaerobic? Nothing good is going to come from that, right?
Jason Rigby (11:22):
And then access to nutritional food and clean water for all, being inclusive with ...
Alexander McCaig (11:27):
Why can't everybody have access to water? I remember that thing that came out with that guy that was running Nestle for a time. And he felt that water was not like a human right. He thought it was something to be owned. And I'm like, "That's messed up."
Jason Rigby (11:41):
I mean, you have water rights and stuff like that. I mean, you have water rights on the property that you own. There's wells and stuff that you're allowed to drill and then-
Alexander McCaig (11:47):
I have a right to water?
Jason Rigby (11:50):
But you don't really have a right because you've got to get a permit.
Alexander McCaig (11:50):
Yeah. So that's not a right.
Jason Rigby (11:51):
From the city or county-
Alexander McCaig (11:53):
It's a false idea-
Jason Rigby (11:54):
... to be able to drill a well.
Alexander McCaig (11:56):
That's a false idea. If I have to go ask somebody for permission for something that all human beings need to survive.
Jason Rigby (12:00):
Yeah, exactly.
Alexander McCaig (12:01):
Do I need an air right? Do I need right to air, to oxygen?
Jason Rigby (12:05):
Oh, if they could, they would tax it.
Alexander McCaig (12:06):
Yeah, they'd probably be all over it, wouldn't they?
Jason Rigby (12:07):
They're going to tax that. I don't want to give them an idea, but they're going to tax air to make sure it's clean.
Alexander McCaig (12:12):
Don't take more than 30 breaths a day.
Jason Rigby (12:15):
If we charge a little bit more for taxes, but make sure your air is cleaner.
Alexander McCaig (12:19):
We're going to put a meter on your chimney.
Jason Rigby (12:21):
Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (12:21):
Every time that goes up, we're going to bill you for it.
Jason Rigby (12:24):
And then building smart cities and digitalization.
Alexander McCaig (12:28):
Yeah. Listen, if you need to show that interaction of these systems, and [inaudible 00:12:33] has the availability to do that, the fungibility to do that, the efficiency to show these interactions. And now with our cloud computing, we have the ability to put these models together, to see how this holistic system is actually interacting.
Jason Rigby (12:46):
And I want to kind of get into the dichotomy of digitalization. So he talks about this. Digitalization is not a blessing in and of itself as it can exacerbate social divides, compound environmental risk and destabilize society.
Alexander McCaig (12:57):
Well, you and I have showed that.
Jason Rigby (12:58):
That's the negative part.
Alexander McCaig (12:59):
Look about Amnesty International, how have they been using AI like a high amount of digitalization to actually control and track people, right? Amnesty International's like, we need to fight against that. The facial recognition technology with AI that's, it's racist. It puts people in buckets. It does all these other things. If I'm putting AI to marketing to get people to spend more, that is not helping the problem of our over-consumption. That's exacerbating it.
Jason Rigby (13:20):
Then he, on the positive side, he says this. That's the negative side. On the positive side he said, on the other hand, digitalization can fast track the green economy by connecting people around the world and encouraging a culture of global cooperation.
Alexander McCaig (13:31):
Yeah, exactly. Right. So that's like using this data to bring awareness to people and show them that through their cooperation can create a positive impact. That's the best part about it. That's the right type of fast tracking that we want to be looking at. That is something that the Tdex helps show people. That's a fast track. It's a visual one for you.
Jason Rigby (13:49):
Yeah. And, I think, in this, because I have been thinking about this, especially with corporations, because they can lead this and be the leaders in this. But I think it's ... especially when we have a capitalistic economy like we do, there needs to be incentivate. We need to incentivize.
Alexander McCaig (14:07):
Incentives, yeah.
Jason Rigby (14:07):
You know? So like we incentivize the milk industry to give us-
Alexander McCaig (14:12):
We don't incentivize. We subsidize.
Jason Rigby (14:13):
Yeah, we subsidize. Yeah. Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (14:16):
yeah.
Jason Rigby (14:17):
And those, that's two different things we could talk about. But like they did the solar panel things, or if you bought an electric car and stuff like that, and then they did that for a period of time. And then they took it away with different states and stuff. And it's like, why wouldn't you leave that and then increase it more? And why are, and I don't want to get into a tangent on this, but just one simple fact here in New Mexico, we have so many flat roofs because it doesn't rain here. Every flat roof that is a business should be having-
Alexander McCaig (14:42):
What if homes.
Jason Rigby (14:43):
Yeah. Everybody.
Alexander McCaig (14:44):
It should just be a requirement. Just put the damn solar panel on it. It's not that big of a deal.
Jason Rigby (14:48):
Then you're netting out energy to not just ... If every business, if every building had solar panels on it, I guarantee you we'd be ... I would like to see a study on that, how much energy we'd be producing in New Mexico alone.
Alexander McCaig (15:00):
Just the amount of real estate on a roof, that surface area is incredible. And think about how that begins to net out that carbon based consumption of fuels that we're currently using.
Jason Rigby (15:10):
Yeah. And in New York city, they have a huge network of bees that are on top of buildings.
Alexander McCaig (15:16):
You know what the thing is?
Jason Rigby (15:17):
They've put beehives up there.
Alexander McCaig (15:18):
The guys that are ... The guys? The companies that are building these things, whatever they might be, they don't care. They don't want to pay extra.
Jason Rigby (15:25):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Alexander McCaig (15:25):
That's the problem.
Jason Rigby (15:26):
Right.
Alexander McCaig (15:27):
They don't see the value in themselves or what they're doing to this planet by wanting to pay a little bit extra to throw that solar panel on there.
Jason Rigby (15:34):
Yes, exactly.
Alexander McCaig (15:35):
That's what it is. They just don't, they don't think it's valuable enough. They're more interested in how quickly can we build the house and fill it up.
Jason Rigby (15:41):
Yeah. And then, companies are always looking at near term. So if you do this project, if you put these solar panels on these roofs, we're going to give you this, for that year we're going to give you this huge tax break. And then every year that you're giving back with those solar panels, then we're going to give you. Those are things that we have to look at and say, for the environment long-term, how does that help?
Alexander McCaig (16:03):
I would love to have an AI system that says, if someone's going to go zone an area to build something, what that impact could possibly look like 50 years from now, positive or negative.
Jason Rigby (16:10):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (16:12):
And that should be a deciding factor whether or not that thing gets built.
Jason Rigby (16:14):
Yeah, because-
Alexander McCaig (16:14):
Not how much do you pay the official there to get the zoning permit to actually start to get to work.
Jason Rigby (16:19):
Yeah, because, and he talks about this progression towards a more circular economy has been limited to innovators and early adopter, global companies, as there are several hurdles to mainstream its acceptance and adoption. Some of these hurdles include the geographic distribution of supply chains, the complexity of materials and the end of life dismantling of projects.
Jason Rigby (16:38):
So when we look at digital technologies, and that's where we're headed, you know what I mean? I would say majority, I don't know what percentage of economy now is just digital, and then, how it's expeditiously growing.
Alexander McCaig (16:48):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (16:49):
But I mean, most of our lives are controlled digitally online.
Alexander McCaig (16:52):
That's correct.
Jason Rigby (16:53):
And he says as machine learning and data analytics enable companies to match the supply and demand for underused assets and products, and we've talked about that.
Alexander McCaig (17:00):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (17:00):
A real boost to a circular economy can be generated through digital matching platforms that can identify new high-value reuse options for materials or waste products across industries. You need a combination of AI and human expertise.
Alexander McCaig (17:12):
Yeah. What we were once ignoring or couldn't see, this can help bring light to.
Jason Rigby (17:15):
Yes. So when we look at the circular economy, which I love, I love the idea of that.
Alexander McCaig (17:19):
It all comes around.
Jason Rigby (17:20):
Yes. And then we say, okay, we have these digital matching platforms and they can identify high value reuse options. So now we're eliminating waste, which is going to give you a better ROI. We're finding ways that we can look at these materials and instead of just filling up the landfills, we're actually able to reuse them. So if we eliminate waste, reuse products, long-term what is that going to look like for your ROI?
Alexander McCaig (17:49):
It's going to look like Taos, New Mexico with their spaceships, with the earth shifts that they have.
Jason Rigby (17:55):
So I want to kind of, because we've gone over here, so.
Alexander McCaig (17:59):
Let's close it out. What can we say here?
Jason Rigby (18:00):
Yeah. He said this.
Alexander McCaig (18:01):
Give me something impactful.
Jason Rigby (18:02):
Through sustainability reporting organizations can report to the outside world on environmental and social performance. So I want to stop right there, the outside world, this viewpoint that it's us as a corporation, as I-
Alexander McCaig (18:14):
And then the outside?
Jason Rigby (18:15):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (18:15):
That is a mess. That perspective right there is probably the progenitor of most of the issues.
Jason Rigby (18:22):
We built walls. We built these corporation walls.
Alexander McCaig (18:25):
Psychological walls.
Jason Rigby (18:27):
And we've created corporation borders around are to protect because everything is at risk. We've got to negate risk and we've got to have better ROI, better shareholder value. And so we actually have from the CEO on down, we have the operating at this razor's edge of insanity because that's what it is, because you can't expect a company just to be continually to make more profit every year.
Alexander McCaig (18:54):
No.
Jason Rigby (18:54):
I mean, you're setting yourself up for some faults. That's why you have ...
Alexander McCaig (18:58):
It's a ridiculous ask that's going to only drive people to make bad decisions.
Jason Rigby (19:01):
And cheat.
Alexander McCaig (19:02):
Yeah, cheat. Yeah. Abuse. A lot of bad things happen when you just force people into that corner.
Jason Rigby (19:09):
When you look at your corporation as a river with either that they have the fingers in the river, you know?
Alexander McCaig (19:17):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jason Rigby (19:18):
And they ... So it's one river, but it has so many outlets to it.
Alexander McCaig (19:23):
All the estuaries and everything that pour out.
Jason Rigby (19:25):
And then inside of those are ecosystems in each of those, but they're all one river.
Alexander McCaig (19:30):
Yep.
Jason Rigby (19:31):
It is the same as your corporation. Your corporation has, it's almost like our circular system. It has this holistic pulsating that goes throughout the whole world. But if you have a large corporation in a Fortune 500, you need to identify all these little points that you have all across the globe. And then once you ... You have to identify it first. Once you identify it, now you can start whacking away if you want to use that, you can start whacking away at these points where you're destabilizing that area, where you're going against the globe in this area, where you have ...
Jason Rigby (20:06):
You could use our big seven, and say, where are we looking at right now in our corporation? We're GE, General Electric. Let's use them because they're huge and have so many. In GE, what parts of the country are we going against human rights?
Alexander McCaig (20:17):
Right.
Jason Rigby (20:19):
And be responsible for that.
Alexander McCaig (20:20):
You need to look at that. That needs to be a barometer for you rather than putting up a wall and saying, "We just do this, and then whatever leaves outside our walls, we're not going to think about it."
Jason Rigby (20:28):
And then how can we improve our supply chain to be more sustainable?
Alexander McCaig (20:31):
Yeah. These are simple ...
Jason Rigby (20:32):
These are questions that you can ask.
Alexander McCaig (20:35):
But this whole idea of us and them is going to kill us. And when I say us, that's all of us, your corporation-
Jason Rigby (20:42):
The outside world.
Alexander McCaig (20:42):
The people, everyone.
Jason Rigby (20:43):
It's one world.
Alexander McCaig (20:44):
It's one world.
Jason Rigby (20:44):
Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (20:45):
It's a big old sphere floating around in the darkness.
Jason Rigby (20:48):
That's all it is.
Jason Rigby (20:50):
Hey Alex.
Alexander McCaig (20:51):
What?
Jason Rigby (20:52):
All as one.
Announcer (21:01):
Thank you for listening to TARTLE Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanities steps into the future and source data defines the path, the path. What's your data worth?
