We often hear people say, ‘violence is never the answer’. Outside of defending yourself few people have any problem with that cliché. This is true on the scale of someone getting mugged to warring nations. However, the truth is that it’s much more significant that violence also has a high cost in resources, enough resources that it could have a massively negative effect on that nation’s economy.
What kind of resources are we talking about here? Up to 34% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in some countries and globally up to 10.5%. Especially considering that those are figures for western, industrialized nations with fully developed economies, that is a lot of money. Money that could be used for a ton of other, better things. Before we get into that though, let’s look at some of the ways that violence winds up costing everyone.
First, think of war. Everyone knows that wars aren’t cheap and while we often think about how much war costs the loser, it isn’t exactly cheap for the winner either. Tanks, missiles, and training all cost money, sometimes millions of dollars each. Then there is the cost associated with assimilating new territory, taking down street signs, removing statues, and the extended military presence it takes to prevent resistance. Don’t worry, this is in no way meant as a sympathy piece for aggressors. The point is that even the winner loses.
Beyond all of that, imagine a war that ends with no one getting occupied, borders return to what they were before hostilities began. There are still costs. When the soldiers come home, they are often physically injured, hampering their ability to make a living, at least without expensive medical care like prosthetics. Mentally, the issues are often even greater. Just the culture shock of going from civilian life to the rigid structure of the military and back can be significant. Having gone through combat, especially the violent house-to-house combat that many have seen since the invasion of Iraq in 2002, takes that culture shock and dials it up to 111. That can also result in a reduced ability to contribute and lots of money spent on therapy. Obviously, this hurts the individual’s ability to earn for himself but the ripple effects go far beyond that. His immediate family will suffer as will the local community and it also affects the nation’s productivity.
That’s a quick overview of the many costs of war. But that’s just one kind of violence. There are many, many more. Muggings, riots, gang wars, domestic violence, child abuse, police brutality all feed into this. Every death, every injury in some way hurts everyone else through the effects that go through our communities. In the face of gang wars or riots, people will spend their money on defending themselves, not on donating to charities and research groups. And no one can blame them. Again, the point is that violence forces people to redirect their own resources to things that may be less productive but are more urgent in the here and now.
Just think of all the great things we could be doing with all that money if it wasn’t getting spent dealing with the horrible aftereffects of violence. How many scholarships could we give? How much medical research could get done? How many addicts could get treated and kept off the streets?
How to get there? One thing that would help is to use something like TARTLE to get in touch with the people affected by violence to learn exactly how they are affected. What are the problems that they experience in their daily lives? What policies have they seen make a difference? With our global reach, TARTLE’s members could provide an extensive cross-section of all the various kinds of violence in a number of different contexts. That can help people learn how to make a real difference and get some of that money put towards things a little more productive than more tank shells.
What’s your data worth? Sign up and join the TARTLE Marketplace with this link here.
We often hear people say, ‘violence is never the answer’. Outside of defending yourself few people have any problem with that cliché. This is true on the scale of someone getting mugged to warring nations. However, the truth is that it’s much more significant that violence also has a high cost in resources, enough resources that it could have a massively negative effect on that nation’s economy.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Tartle Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby. Where humanities steps into the future. And source data defines the path.
Alexander McCaig (00:24):
Welcome back everybody to Tartle Cast. It's been pretty heated these past couple episodes. With like a, talking about data and political regimes. So I want to go over this really awesome thing that Jason had put together from the IEP. Which is the Institute for Economics and Peace. It's interesting. Economics is an interesting way to take things. People pay attention. Like you said, Jason. When money's involved.
Jason Rigby (00:51):
Yes. Alex. And I think this is, I love the way that he did this report and I encourage people to go online and read about it. If you're interested in it's like 63 pages and you can just click on it right there and download it. But the Institute for economics and peace. They said this, "Let's do some research and see how much it's going to cost." Each country, their GDP for having violence. And then let's look at the percentages of violence. And then that go over the categories of whether it's homicide, suicide, terrorism, whatever it may be. Not only just military for external. But internal police force. And let's see how much it's going to cost that individual.
Alexander McCaig (01:34):
They use many indicators. And there was a pretty good balance between direct indicators.
Jason Rigby (01:39):
Right.
Alexander McCaig (01:39):
And indirect.
Jason Rigby (01:40):
Mm-hmm (affirmative) .
Alexander McCaig (01:41):
And the combination of these fed into their model. And this was some of the findings that we're looking at with what that data was telling them and its impact on the economies.
Jason Rigby (01:48):
Yes. And I want to kind of get into their key findings. Number one was conceptual background. So the global economic impact of violence is defined as the expenditure. It's a keyword. So how much money are we actually spending? Now we were estimating, but we're actually spent. Expenditure and economic effect related to, and that this is key to defining this. That's why I love that they made things ultra clear. Containing, preventing and dealing with the consequences of violence.
Alexander McCaig (02:15):
Yes. Containing, preventing, and dealing with the consequence. So it's not stopping violence-
Jason Rigby (02:20):
Because we don't care-
Alexander McCaig (02:21):
It's about what happens after violence [crosstalk 00:02:22].
Jason Rigby (02:22):
We want a shareholder profit now. We don't care about the consequences of it.
Alexander McCaig (02:26):
yes [crosstalk 00:02:26].
Jason Rigby (02:26):
As long as last quarter was great.
Alexander McCaig (02:28):
So their focus is, what happens if they're like and their mindset with their data. They're like people are going to commit violence regardless. So how do we deal with it after the fact when violence has been committed? And so then they begin to look at that data. And what effect does that data actually then begin to have? And how does that sit under that key finding?
Jason Rigby (02:45):
Yes. And they said for every death, for every violent death. There are up to 40 times as many injuries that require medical attention. Incur hospitalization costs. And result in loss productivity from the victim.
Alexander McCaig (02:57):
Yes. Of course. If I'm in the hospital. If I'm deceased. If my legs are broken, I've been shot. Whatever it is.
Jason Rigby (03:04):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (03:04):
Some area of violence or aggressive force. [Alsatian or 00:03:10] gevalt is what you would want to call. It might have force from the German standpoint. Is that I'm inoperable to work. You've put me in a mental state that doesn't allow for me to create any sort of productivity for myself. The locale that I live in. Where the country as a whole. My hands don't work. What's OSHA going to do when I walk in, I got no fricking hands. And they're like, how'd you get this injury? Is a work-related? And it's like, actually, no. There's a lot of violence in my country. We have all these nationalist groups and I got my hands chopped off by whatever one. So the cost of taking one person out of that system. How did that, them being a cog in this major wheel is going to have dramatic effects. That wheel is going to turn slower.
Jason Rigby (03:55):
Yes. It was crazy in the report. They talked about Syria and it costs an average of $1,800 per person. For them to have their conflict.
Alexander McCaig (04:05):
That is unbelievable.
Jason Rigby (04:06):
Think about that bro. $1,800 per person a month.
Alexander McCaig (04:10):
So here's the thought. They think that having a conflict is going to have some sort of victor at the end. Both sides are losing. You're crippling your economy and the people within it.
Jason Rigby (04:19):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (04:20):
The long-term effects is psychological effects with that. That the data is showing. And the material effects of the person's body and the economic effects? No one's a winner.
Jason Rigby (04:30):
Right.
Alexander McCaig (04:31):
And the smart people are the ones that win off of violence. Insurance companies. People that make weapons.
Jason Rigby (04:41):
Right.
Alexander McCaig (04:42):
Defense budgets, right? There's a cost involved $14.4 trillion is the cost involved with violence. When there's a cost involved. Somebody has to get paid. I'm giving you a bill for the violence. So somebody in the business of making money off of violence. But for the greater good of everybody? That cost, first of all. Imagine what you could do with $14.4 trillion. Elevating people.
Jason Rigby (05:08):
I guarantee you could solve one of the big seven with $14.4 trillion.
Alexander McCaig (05:12):
$14.4 trillion. We could probably solve three out of the big seven.
Jason Rigby (05:14):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (05:14):
Maybe four. Right? And so if we look at this conceptually. The data is showing that, regardless the economic impact is huge but the long-term effects on the human being. What this data is showing is so dramatic. And there's no victor when it comes to violence.
Jason Rigby (05:30):
Yes. They said the direct and indirect costs that erode economic development. Increase instability. Increase in quality. And he rode human capital.
Alexander McCaig (05:40):
Yes. It erodes. Human capital. If you look at human beings as cattle. I had 10,000 heads of cattle. And I'm producing this much milk. I've lost 80%. I have 2000 cows left. I'm only producing this much milk. That means I'm only going to make this much money this year. That's your economy. And its simplicity. If you look at human capital in that function.
Jason Rigby (06:01):
This is shocking. How they broke this down. This is section two. The economic impact of violence. Right? I know we're talking about that. But let's get specific. You had mentioned the $14.4 trillion in 2019. They said, that's equivalent to 10.5% of global GDP are $1,895 per person. So you take all the billion?-
Alexander McCaig (06:22):
So every time a body is shot in some sort of conflict. Some sort of violence that's happening, that happens. I'm going to take a grand out of your pocket. Jason, if you went to every hardworking union guy do whatever he's doing. And you told him, "Hey, just want to let you know. The conflict that's going on in Somalia, because your government's involved with it. Is costing you $1,600 a year." He's like, "Are you kidding me?" That's car payments. That's a mortgage payment for that guy. But when you think in your mind, it's like, "Oh, you know, violence has no effect on me." What's going on with the data is showing. What's going on in these depressed countries in Africa. Where human rights are being, it's a total travesty and there's just tons of violence. That doesn't have an effect on me cause I'm not located there. Well, guess what? It has a very negative economic effect on what's going on with you here in the United States.
Jason Rigby (07:16):
Yes. And it's crazy the 10 highest economic cost of violence. So the 10 countries that have the highest violence right now. The violence costs was 36.4% of their GDP where the 10 most peaceful countries. Which are like Sweden, Iceland, those areas. The average cost was 3.9% of their GDP. So we go from 36.4 to 3.9%. That difference. I mean, you could change-
Alexander McCaig (07:44):
The 34% change.
Jason Rigby (07:45):
That 34% of money. You could change the whole educational system in a country.
Alexander McCaig (07:49):
34% of a GDP. You can change multiple education systems.
Jason Rigby (07:51):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (07:52):
Just on violence alone. You can come and give everybody in the United States free education at any college they wanted to go. For a very long time. That's insane. And when we look at these direct and indirect indicators. They're looking at it from an observational standpoint of all these things that people are, that countries are reporting. Insurance companies are reporting. Financials are reporting. Businesses are reporting. The thing that's missed. Even though they see the end game impact on the person from an economic standpoint. The indicator they're missing is the indicator from those individuals in those countries.
Alexander McCaig (08:25):
So I would give a shout out to the IEP and be like, "IEP. Have you considered using Tartle? So you can actually ask the people that are most dramatically affected?"
Jason Rigby (08:32):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (08:33):
By this violence. What is going on with them? You've looked at it from a third party with third-party data. Now let's look at some primary source data about how this is really affecting you. Talk about the value of that report. Then beyond the emotional impact of violence. When you say we've actually spoken with the people in that country. I know exactly what's going on in the mental States. Behaviors. Labors. Anything that's going on in the economic impact at the level of the people inside of their house. Rather than just listening to a business or insurance company that's making money out of it.
Jason Rigby (09:04):
Yes. It getting real granular. And in speaking to the people to receive truth.
Alexander McCaig (09:08):
Right. And that's elevating to them. Oh, and by the way. You can share earnings to those people. So if you realize how important it is to give them some sort of economic impact back. If they're being economically deprived from violence. IEP, Tartle may be your best tool to go and actually acquire.
Jason Rigby (09:24):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (09:25):
For using it for research.
Jason Rigby (09:26):
And what we always gloss over statistics. And we just kind of listened to them a real quick. But I want people to get this statistic. And I'm going to say this twice. Just so people understand. A 2% reduction in the impact of violent. Just a 2% reduction in the globe. A 2% is roughly equivalent to all overseas development aid.
Alexander McCaig (09:50):
Dude, what is 2%-
Jason Rigby (09:52):
A 2% decrease, Alex.
Alexander McCaig (09:53):
What's 2% of 14.4 trillion.
Jason Rigby (09:55):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (09:56):
Of course, it's all overseas aid. Because it's insignificant comparative to all the amount of profit sharing that happens off of violence. 2%-
Jason Rigby (10:06):
That 2% percent is equivalent to what everybody's good heart is giving to help a lot of these third world countries.
Alexander McCaig (10:15):
Yes.
Jason Rigby (10:15):
That's so crazy. When it's actually global peace which is number four on our big seven. And this is what I want to get into. I know we've gone under these statistics. But they have the, and this is so beautiful-
Alexander McCaig (10:27):
This is how they the world.
Jason Rigby (10:32):
The pillars Of positive peace.
Alexander McCaig (10:34):
Yes.
Jason Rigby (10:34):
Positive peace predict on an eight key factors or pillars that describe the working of [crosstalk 00:10:39] social economic system.-
Alexander McCaig (10:40):
We're close.
Jason Rigby (10:41):
Yes. We're close.
Alexander McCaig (10:41):
We're close.
Jason Rigby (10:42):
Number one is a well-functioning government.
Alexander McCaig (10:46):
Oh, look at that government corporate transparency.
Jason Rigby (10:50):
Yes. And then I'm going to kind of go through these quickly. And I think we should do a global piece episode based off of these. But we'll go quickly now for the sake of time. And then we're going to do another one guys. Just on these pillars of positive peace.
Alexander McCaig (11:02):
Right. Just round them out and then we'll close it out and do another episode.
Jason Rigby (11:05):
Sound business environment. Acceptance of the rights of others. Good relations with neighbors. A free flow of information.
Alexander McCaig (11:16):
[crosstalk 00:11:16] that's our favorite [pillar 00:11:18].
Jason Rigby (11:21):
High Levels of human capital.
Alexander McCaig (11:22):
Yes.
Jason Rigby (11:23):
Love that one. Low levels of corruption.
Alexander McCaig (11:26):
So less dead people and less corruption. That makes a lot of sense.
Jason Rigby (11:29):
That speaks to our government and corporate [transportation 00:11:32]-
Alexander McCaig (11:32):
And also public health. People that are alive and not filled with lead. That's probably a good thing.
Jason Rigby (11:38):
Because I want to talk about each of these. Because we could go on, on each of these. But the next one is, the last one of the pillars of positive peace is equitable. Distribution of resources.
Alexander McCaig (11:47):
Wow. Economic equalization. Number seven. Do you have access to banking? No. Well, let's get you some.
Jason Rigby (11:54):
Yes. Exactly.
Alexander McCaig (11:55):
I'm not saying everybody should be paid the same. I'm not talking about a [socialism 00:11:57] . I'm just saying, do you have the opportunity to get this? When you shouldn't have been redlined? No. Okay. Well let's fix that. Right?
Jason Rigby (12:05):
This is so amazing. And so beautiful. I just want to think, I thought this is great-
Alexander McCaig (12:10):
Really. I want to bank IEP. It's absolutely, It's fabulous. And I think it's a step in the right direction.
Jason Rigby (12:14):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (12:15):
And they can elevate it. Even more with their datasets to have something that is so freaking punching. They should charge 10 times the cost for it.
Jason Rigby (12:21):
Exactly. And let everybody know that violence costs.
Alexander McCaig (12:27):
Yes. Violence is not free.
Jason Rigby (12:28):
It's not free. So don't be violent.
Alexander McCaig (12:32):
Yes. Don't-
Jason Rigby (12:32):
Be nice. Just be good a [crosstalk 00:12:35] person. Take responsibility. Yes.
Alexander McCaig (12:36):
Yes. Stop shooting each other. Can we stop shooting each other?
Jason Rigby (12:40):
Who cares? Who? This person in offices or not?
Alexander McCaig (12:44):
Can we not machete? Someone's arm off?
Jason Rigby (12:47):
Yes. Exactly.
Alexander McCaig (12:48):
Violence? They only have violence here geared towards human beings. What about violence towards animals.
Jason Rigby (12:53):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (12:54):
What about violence towards ecosystems?
Jason Rigby (12:56):
Systems. Yes. How much is that cost?
Alexander McCaig (12:57):
How much does that cost? Oh, I tell you what it cost you. seven billion people's lives and 50 years.
Jason Rigby (13:02):
Yes. Exactly.
Alexander McCaig (13:03):
Violence towards an ecosystem. Snap.
Jason Rigby (13:05):
It's just violence in general. Let's just be peaceful.
Alexander McCaig (13:08):
Don't be violent.
Jason Rigby (13:09):
We have this one meat soup. So let's do it.
Alexander McCaig (13:12):
Yes. Let's make it last.
Jason Rigby (13:13):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (13:14):
Don't put holes in it.
Jason Rigby (13:16):
No holes.
Alexander McCaig (13:16):
No. Hole free.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Thank you for listening to Tartle Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby. With humanity's steps into the future. And source data defines the path. What's your data [work? 00:13:43]
