Direct Primary Care - Proactive Revolutionary Decentralized High Functioning Healthcare That Is Affordable for All With Founder of Well Life ABQ Part 2

Speaker 1 (00:07):

Welcome to TARTLE Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanities steps into the future and source data defines the path.

Alexander McCaig (00:19):

Hello everyone. Welcome back to TARTLE Cast for part two of Well Life ABQ in the function of integrative healthcare... Crap, what was it? Integrative something.

KC (00:37):

Integrative healthcare. We're just taking the best of everything out there and integrating into healthcare.

Alexander McCaig (00:37):

New Speaker (00:44):

Yeah, we're talking about the benefits of everything-

KC (00:44):

It shouldn't have a name, it should just be called healthcare.

Alexander McCaig (00:46):

Yeah, that's how it should be, and that's why I'm like, this is a mouthful, right? It seems everybody else owns the copyright to healthcare except for us here that are trying to keep people healthy. So we're talking about revolutionizing a model here. We talked about the aspect of how you translate that data from multiple sources and give someone a legitimate picture, and you're sitting there with them having that conversation. It's truly meeting individuals where they need to be met with things about themselves in the healthcare space.

KC (01:12):

Right.

Alexander McCaig (01:14):

How would you see this moving forward to actually revolutionizing companies offering healthcare to all their employees? And then let's blow this model wide open, give me a hypothetical idea about how could we even apply this sort of model that you have designed, that you're championing, and putting it all across the globe. There's no reason things could be, you have this beautiful golden egg over here that shouldn't be shared with everyone else. So let's talk about that.

KC (01:41):

So first of all, in this country, companies have a ton of power. They are probably the primary, they are the primary payer of all the healthcare costs in this country. And whether they're paying insurance premiums or they're paying for actual healthcare for their employees, depending on how they're structured, they're the major player and they're all walking around doing the status quo when all these direct primary care clinics all across the country, I'm not some genius that developed this model, this is happening all across the country. In fact, we should have probably put that up as the map to show how many clinics there are out there, and so companies have this model avail them to right now, they could adopt it tomorrow, and they can start saving money and deliver better healthcare to their employees, because health insurance is not healthcare. I said that earlier in the podcast.

Alexander McCaig (02:26):

Right.

KC (02:26):

Health insurance does not equal health care.

Alexander McCaig (02:28):

So then this obviously begs the obvious question, why aren't they doing that?

KC (02:33):

Status quo, nobody else is doing it, but there are companies that are doing it. They're just here or there. They're just, everybody's learning the model. I have a company right now that I'm talking to, I've been talking to them for a long time and they're pretty much ready to try a pilot program, but they're stepping into the abyss. If I put myself in their shoes, this is a model they've never heard of, they don't truly see how it will work, and I'm asking them to step into this abyss with a blindfold on to say, this really does work.

Alexander McCaig (03:03):

You know, I had a conversation the other day with someone who does work with the WHO, and they're like, "Well, I'm an empiricist and we only deal with structured data." And then I came back with the question, I was like, "How do you know the questions you're asking are correct?"

KC (03:18):

Right.

Alexander McCaig (03:19):

How do you know the way you're observing is correct? You haven't even asked the people if that scale works for them. You designed a scale for them. So it's like the old Procrustean bed thing, you know? It's like, well, if the bed don't fit, I'm going to cut your legs off and make you fit to it. So your model is coined with so much flexibility in it. I just want to... Can you create sort of a coalition so that people can essentially come together and learn more about your model?

KC (03:46):

Like how does it work?

Alexander McCaig (03:47):

Yeah. I think that's just a huge thing. Education seems like a massive barrier.

KC (03:51):

That is my... absolutely.

Alexander McCaig (03:52):

It's been a big barrier for us. We try to educate on data, and how people are using data and how it benefits you. But that's education, it's not coercion.

KC (04:00):

Right? No, so education absolutely is my biggest barrier when it comes to talking to people about this. The model itself, super simple. $75 a month per employee, that's it. It doesn't get more complex than that. But what that creates downstream for the company is just, there's so many levels. I can save on prescriptions, I can save on labs, I can keep your employees out of the urgent care in the emergency room just because they have access to healthcare. They're not having to go to these high cost entry points just to say, I have a sore throat. They can just come to us or they can use our 24 seven telemedicine service that's included in our program, so they always have, or their employees have access to a clinician 24/7. That keeps people out of urgent cares and emergency rooms. That alone will save them money. There's so many points that they save money that the simple program becomes very complex.

Alexander McCaig (04:47):

That's amazing. And saving money is one thing, but saving lives is another.

KC (04:50):

Oh yeah, and their employees are getting excellent health care.

Alexander McCaig (04:54):

Yeah. Right, and so-

KC (04:56):

And actual healthcare, not-

Alexander McCaig (04:56):

And when you define excellent, you could be biased all you want, you own the company. So then-

KC (05:01):

I think it's excellent.

Alexander McCaig (05:01):

Yeah, I know, so then comparatively, how would you define your excellence into what other people would say, "Oh, we're excellent too." Do you have a legitimate quantitative benchmark of excellence? Like your data shows, we are truly excellent in the outcome and preserving people's state of health rather than these other systems.

KC (05:20):

So that's really tough. So how do you use data to say somebody healthier? So our government has tried very hard to do this and they've created these qualifying benchmarks. So you're a patient of mine and I'm in a typical clinic, and I have to check 50 boxes on my electronic health record because the government says I have to.

Alexander McCaig (05:38):

Oh, now we're getting to something good. So here we go.

KC (05:40):

Yeah, so you broke your ankle and my MA is asking you if you smoke. It's kind of unnecessary for the appointment. I think it's important but it's-

Alexander McCaig (05:47):

It was out at the nightclub smoking. While I was pulling a drag and I tripped off the curb and broke my ankle.

KC (05:53):

Right, so that's totally related, yeah. So one of the government benchmarks, which is crazy, is they evaluate me as a practitioner to say, okay, so you have a patient that comes in with a high hemoglobin A1C. They're diabetic. You decide if I'm a good provider based on how low I get that hemoglobin A1C. Now, I could cheat and say, "Here, takes some insulin." I can get that down.

Alexander McCaig (06:18):

Let me net that sucker out for you, and then hold on, I'm going to send that data quick to the government.

KC (06:22):

And I'm a great provider because I've done that. Now, I haven't talked to you about nutrition, I haven't talked to you about supplements that can improve your glucose tolerance and your insulin sensitivity, I haven't talked to you about weight loss. I've just thrown some insulin at you and I'm a great provider. So these data points, you just said, they may not be relevant, they may not be important. So it is hard to figure out, oh, why is my health care? So great. And one of the things is our individual members, because we've been doing this for four years before we started rolling it out to companies, our individual members, they stay. They don't leave us.

Alexander McCaig (06:55):

This is a huge-

KC (06:56):

That's a benchmark. They don't leave.

Alexander McCaig (06:57):

This is a huge point because when I've spoken with people at their hospitals, they look at their net promoter score. We build this much, we've had this many people leave the hospital. What about the ones that chose not to return because you did a terrible job, or the ones that don't even want to interact with you or don't want to write a review or do any of these things. Or what about the ones that say, "I don't want to go to the hospital because someone told me it was a place I don't want to go to." But you're saying, "I got a 4.8 net promoter score. The government says we're doing a good job. I get these sort of subsidies." You know what I mean?

KC (07:26):

Right. So we have all these data points that we use to reimburse people, and so then people start to cater to these data points. They're not catering to the patient.

Alexander McCaig (07:33):

See, this is the problem. When people look at data, they don't understand that the driver behind it is a human being, and that needs to be made abundantly clear with everything. You wouldn't have data, you wouldn't have a hospital if sick people weren't walking through the front door. Simple as that.

KC (07:45):

Right, and if you pull up on Google, our reviews, we have five star reviews. I don't think we have a single non five star review. Look up any other clinic in the city and find that. You're lucky if you see a 2.5.

Alexander McCaig (07:58):

No, listen, I'm glad you're boasting that, and you should really put your face on the front line, yeah.

KC (08:02):

That's a data point. They were actually excellent and patients say we're excellent.

Alexander McCaig (08:06):

Well, it show how much you can actually shine when you choose to have a human interaction with these people.

KC (08:10):

Yeah. So yeah, I think we're excellent.

Jason Rigby (08:13):

So I want to get into-

Alexander McCaig (08:16):

Enough said, mic drop.

Jason Rigby (08:19):

Yeah, I want to get into, because everybody talks about this, you have HR departments and human resources don't want, and this was a shock to me is how they just bump up the cost every year and no one even knows. I want to get into the conspiracy theory part, and it's not a conspiracy.

KC (08:36):

It's a reality not a conspiracy.

Jason Rigby (08:37):

Of the different levels and how the pharmacy and the clinic, all that stuff work. Because this is really interesting, and what they do to companies.

KC (08:46):

So this is deep, so the CEO-

Alexander McCaig (08:48):

Yeah, go ahead. We held hands out like this, so I'll keep putting our hands out. Everybody slide, no, I don't want to talk first, all right. So go ahead.

KC (08:55):

So the CEO, they tell the HR department, get us the best price for the insurance plan and don't get us sued.

Alexander McCaig (09:02):

Correct.

KC (09:03):

So the HR person is very risk averse. They're always a person like, this is like, Oh, you can't say that to the employer or we have to do this before we can do that. We can't fire that person because we have to do all these things. So they're very risk averse. And so now you're telling them, okay, get the best price and don't get us sued. So the insurance broker over here for the company is saying, okay, I need to make sure I keep this company, and so what I'm going to do is I'm going to wait till the last minute. I'm not going to give you your prices for next year until about a month before it's time for you to renew, so you're on a pressure cooker.

Alexander McCaig (09:35):

It's literally not enough time for me to renew.

KC (09:37):

Now, you can't shop around.

Alexander McCaig (09:39):

Correct.

KC (09:40):

And so they'll say, "Oh, we have to increase your prices 20% this year." You're like, "Oh my gosh, this is my second biggest line item after payroll." And now you're seeing 10% like, "Okay, well I can negotiate it down to a 10% increase." And you're like, "Oh, thank goodness. Okay, here, CEO. Here's our new..."

Alexander McCaig (09:57):

Thanks for doing me a favor.

KC (09:57):

Yeah, here's our new plan. And so that happens every year, and the reality is the cost of healthcare isn't going up. What it costs me to deliver healthcare on a routine level, it's not that expensive and it's not going up. It's really not going up.

Alexander McCaig (10:12):

Well, then why is it falsely going up? What is this?

KC (10:16):

Because there's middlemen.

Alexander McCaig (10:17):

Okay. So, Oh, this is interesting. Oh, this is great. Oh, fantastic. So we can get to the real value and weight of things when we remove people that are just trying to profiteer out of the center?

KC (10:28):

Remove the middleman, absolutely.

Alexander McCaig (10:29):

Okay, interesting.

KC (10:30):

For the routine stuff. So 80% of healthcare is the routine stuff.

Alexander McCaig (10:33):

Yeah.

KC (10:34):

Most people aren't ever in a hospital.

Alexander McCaig (10:37):

No. And last I checked, most of the actual hospital billing actually goes towards end of life care anyway.

KC (10:43):

Right? Oh yeah. Yeah, we're very expensive at the end of life.

Alexander McCaig (10:46):

Right? So then you look at the majority of the insurance costs, you're actually helping to balance out or subsidize that balance sheet for an insurance company that is paying out for people that have very, very expensive treatments, that sit within whatever that risk bucket that they've currently aggregated everybody into.

KC (10:59):

And a lot of companies are set up where they're self-funded, so they'll say, we have a million dollars in our healthcare pot this year, and then they'll have a third-party administrator. Well, to you as the employee, that just looks like an insurance company. It just says, I'll just use Presbyterian or local, so we sell at Presbyterian intel. And so it's a special plan and all they are is a third-party administrator. They're not actually the insurance company. There's this million dollar pot behind that insurance card that's actually paying the claims.

KC (11:28):

So that pot, the way direct primary care can help that pot is we skip the claims. We just go around and say, this is your direct price at 50, 90% discount, so your million dollar pot goes a lot farther. Now, these plans always have what they call re-insurance where if somebody has the horrible cancer diagnosis, the most catastrophic thing, if their claims are above a certain amount then it just goes into this re-insurance. It doesn't actually decline the pot. And so you can take a million dollars, save them 30%. They can take that $300,000 and put it somewhere else.

Alexander McCaig (12:00):

Yeah. That makes sense. And do you literally have data to prove that that's how that system works?

KC (12:05):

There's been some studies out. They're a little sparse, we're just learning some of this stuff, but absolutely, there's data out there. And direct primary care actually does really well on net promoter scores also.

Alexander McCaig (12:15):

I know. Well, I mean, obviously, your Google review over here, you know what I'm saying? No, I think that's... I truly find that fabulous, and the fact that just looking at the financial data alone and being able to share that amongst your direct primary care that you have discussed, that decentralized network had phenomenal efficiencies to it. And if you're talking about decreasing that cost by 90%, and that decrease, that efficiency also gets translated over to the actual person getting their healthcare, this seems like a very obvious model.

KC (12:46):

Yeah, I mean, I'm being in my head against the wall sometimes.

Alexander McCaig (12:47):

Yeah. So then if you bang your head against wall, what is it that you would like to say to these people? What is it, that transition point to be like, here, this is what the data shows. Why are you not waking up to it?

KC (12:58):

So I think CEOs and CFOs, they're just like, "This sounds too good to be true. How can you do this for $75 a month? Healthcare is way more expensive than that. There's just no way." And it's like, well, first of all, we've been doing it for four years. Second of all, there's thousands of clinics all across the country that are doing it as well. It works because at $75 a month, most people aren't coming in to the clinic monthly. Generally speaking, people come in every quarter if they have a chronic disease, but they're not coming in monthly. And the truth is for a primary care insurance reimbursement, that clinic is getting reimbursed maybe $80 to 115 for a primary care visit, and I have to hire a second employee per provider to get that money.

Alexander McCaig (13:40):

That's ridiculous.

KC (13:41):

So now I'm really-

Jason Rigby (13:41):

They're just processing paperwork, yeah.

Alexander McCaig (13:42):

That's all it is, yeah.

KC (13:44):

Just to get the money.

Alexander McCaig (13:44):

Jack up your payroll so you get a reimbursement, but then the net is I'm still paying out more. It's a losing system.

KC (13:49):

It's a losing system. It's a horrible system. When I looked at business models of how I was going to do a clinic, insurance was out. There was no way I could survive as a business model-

Alexander McCaig (13:58):

It's ridiculous.

KC (13:59):

... and make it work, and deliver the kind of healthcare I wanted to deliver. So what that translates in a typical clinic, all this extra person filing claims and this really low reimbursement rate, that translates to the 15 minute appointment. The rushed, the double booking, the way behind.

Alexander McCaig (14:14):

Because we've got to get more through here.

KC (14:16):

I can't keep the lights on unless every single person shows up today, so I'm going to double book, I'm going to triple book. And the provider pays the price, the patient pays the price, and so, yeah, so $75 a month sounds really cheap, but truly, we're not getting reimbursed very much at all because primary care providers are the redheaded stepchild of healthcare. We get no respect, but we're doing the heavy lifting. We're taking care of the whole patient.

Jason Rigby (14:42):

Yeah, and also these middlemen are all getting together now and operating on the different levels.

Alexander McCaig (14:48):

Well, why wouldn't they be?

KC (14:49):

Well, we haven't even talked about pharmacy benefit managers.

Alexander McCaig (14:51):

Yeah, they're essentially threatened, so they need to put together a coalition. It's like the OPEC of healthcare.

Jason Rigby (14:58):

So yeah, go into that just a little bit. It's not a conspiracy theory but this is interesting enough.

Alexander McCaig (15:02):

This is great, yeah. Tell me about how they're coming together. So if your model is essentially threatening to this ecosystem that they've built, an albeit inefficient one, what are they doing to essentially combat that? Because people will do that. You're threatening their business models, you're threatening their profits. So they're like, "Well, how do we prevent this from occurring, what [Casey 00:15:19] is doing with Well Life?"

KC (15:20):

So I'm thankfully in a somewhat larger city so there's competition. There's different labs here, there's different pharmacies. If you try to do a direct primary care model in a small town, and I have a colleague in a small town in Missouri, the hospital actively works against him. They actively will not do the labs for his patients because they're the only lab provider in that area. So his patients, if they're not processing the labs within the clinic, which they do most of them, but his patients actually have to drive 45 minutes to get to a lab that isn't actively working against this clinic in this small town. So yeah, there's definitely, insurance companies and hospitals see it as a threat, but us as direct primary care models, we're like, hey, we're just over here providing routine care. We're actually not a threat to you. Work with us, not against us.

Alexander McCaig (16:08):

Sure. Why is it that Walmart can put a McDonald's in the inside but they can't put one of your offices?

KC (16:15):

So-

Alexander McCaig (16:16):

People are already driving 40 minutes to get to Walmart anyway, why can't I just do everything right there?

KC (16:19):

So Walmart, actually, they're a self-funded coming because they're so big, so they just have the huge pot of money. And they, I don't think they participate, I know Amazon is really big on it. They actually have a somewhat similar direct primary care model as onsite healthcare. So onsite healthcare is something that a lot of bigger employers do.

Alexander McCaig (16:38):

This is what I'm wondering. Why wouldn't you be doing that?

KC (16:40):

And that's actually really similar to direct primary care model where you put a clinician within the facility and say, your employees can come here and get all their healthcare and it saves them money. The problem is, is when you have it onsite, employees don't trust it. They feel like you're in cahoots with the employer.

Alexander McCaig (16:56):

You know what that reminds me of? If we look at the Philippines and if you deliver them an ad that's actually in Filipino if that's a language, they're like, I don't trust that.

KC (17:01):

Really?

Alexander McCaig (17:01):

It's got to be in English.

Jason Rigby (17:02):

Yeah, they prefer it in English.

KC (17:03):

They want it in English? Oh, wow.

Jason Rigby (17:06):

If you're in China and you're looking to buy a US asset and someone's trying to sell you that financial asset, if you put it in Mandarin, they're like, "I don't want it. Make it in English." You know what I mean? What an interesting perspective.

KC (17:17):

Yeah, so perspective, and it's a trust thing. And so I've worked as a nurse, before I was a nurse practitioner as an RN, I worked at some of these onsite clinics. Extremely under utilized. I'd see like five patients a day.

Alexander McCaig (17:27):

I'd be in there everyday just for testing. I'd be like the Tim Ferriss of integrated health.

Jason Rigby (17:32):

Yeah, exactly.

KC (17:33):

So an offsite clinic that's functioning like an onsite clinic is kind of the best of both worlds, where the company's saving money, they're providing healthcare to their employees, and the employees are like, "Oh, this is off site so I don't feel as threatened."

Alexander McCaig (17:46):

You know, if Elon Musk can launch satellites with the internet, you should be able to launch satellites for this integrated health care, all the time.

Jason Rigby (17:52):

So what if a company has... So, okay, we get all of this and they have insurance and they say, okay, the model is kind of weird but I get it. I would like to be a part of it. What happens then? Do they only have emergency care? Do they change their insurance? So they have to have that conversation, so that was probably one they don't want to have.

KC (18:14):

So it becomes a little complex. And so one of the ways that direct primary care, we get them to listen to us is when they make the switch to high deductible, because a lot of companies are being forced to do that because of the cost. They just cannot keep paying these costs of these insurance premiums so they're being forced to go to high deductible. Well now, their minimum wage employee has a $5,000 deductible. They don't dare go to the doctor because they have to pay everything out of pocket until they reach that 5,000. So now they're delaying care, they're not taking care of themselves on sick care, they're calling in sick-

Alexander McCaig (18:46):

And if you don't have the employee, you can't get widgets out.

KC (18:48):

And yeah, and so it helps soften the blow of the high deductible, but it's not just soften the blow, it's actually the answer. So you put in a catastrophic plan, a high deductible plan, you throw direct primary care in there, they get all the healthcare they need. Then if something bad happens, then they dip into this catastrophic here. So the best model is a high deductible catastrophic plan with a direct primary care service.

Jason Rigby (19:10):

So what about their wives or their partners or their children? How does that work? Is it just for-

Alexander McCaig (19:17):

That's a good question. Is it just for me or can I bring the whole family in?

KC (19:18):

So our additional members are $30, so whether it's a spouse, a child, whatever. Every additional member is $30.

Alexander McCaig (19:24):

Okay, that's cheaper than cell phone plans, so keep going, yeah.

Jason Rigby (19:27):

So it's 75 plus 30 for a husband and wife or whatever.

KC (19:31):

So we have this scenario right now. We have a company, the company said we're going to pay for our employees and so one of the employees is like, "I also want my wife to be a part of this." And so we have it set up where he pays, that they pay for themselves as an individual, they pay the 30 bucks. They're not paying another 75 just because they're separate from the company, so the company is paying the $75 for the employee, the family itself paying $30 for the spouse.

Alexander McCaig (19:54):

That sounds like a networked web out. That sounds fantastic. So now let me ask you here, we're all well and good here in a developed country, economically developed, lack developing consciousness here in the United States. How would this model be applied in a global aspect? You're speaking to 175 countries right now on this microphone, so it's all well and good-

KC (20:18):

That doesn't stress me out.

Alexander McCaig (20:18):

Yeah, it's all well and good that they're like, Whoa, cool. It's happening in the US, but I got an infection and I live on the side of a river or whatever it is, in some sort of rural area in one of these countries. How is it that this model could be delivered? Can it work outside of the United States? Would it work in a developing country?

KC (20:35):

Any developing country, it would absolutely work. And I think, well, I know, one of the reasons that we have one of the highest... Why our healthcare costs so much is because we're not grassroots delivering direct primary care across these smaller country... These smaller countries, they're already set up for this. They don't really have this big behemoth-like situation of high cost healthcare. So absolutely, direct primary care could exist anywhere.

Jason Rigby (21:01):

And that would solve a lot of the... Because that toe infection with the screw that you got into it, Alex. You're going to try to pull that out yourself, in one of these developing countries, you're going to try to pull that out yourself, it's going to get infected, then you're going to have to get a toe taken off. So rod off now, next thing you know-

KC (21:15):

A government can say, here clinic in my little city, we're going to pay for all of these people-

Jason Rigby (21:24):

Did you just solve healthcare in a country?

KC (21:26):

Maybe.

Alexander McCaig (21:26):

Is this what just happened right here?

KC (21:27):

I think possibly, possibly. So as a government... So even the city of Albuquerque, direct primary care could save them so much money. To say, all of you employees, you go to this clinic and get all your healthcare and you don't have to pay a copay. So that's how we're going to incentivize you to go to this clinic instead of staying [crosstalk 00:21:45]-

Jason Rigby (21:45):

Or a city could offer health care for everyone.

Alexander McCaig (21:48):

Listen, if a business can do it, a city can do it, a government can do it.

Jason Rigby (21:53):

Yeah.

KC (21:54):

It's very scalable-

Jason Rigby (21:55):

And it would be very inexpensive.

KC (21:56):

... simple model.

Alexander McCaig (21:57):

So it's scalable. So it works at its fundamental architecture so that means that we could essentially put that anywhere. It's agnostic to the geography at that point.

KC (22:05):

Pretty much, yeah. The concept stays the same.

Alexander McCaig (22:07):

Yeah, and you leave essentially this political system around healthcare that's making it falsely so expensive. And you're like, well, why don't we just deliver some real pricing to people that really need it? There's 330 million people here in the US. Well guess what? There's seven and a half billion hanging outside of it. That's the real priority. I'm talking about all of humanity here, and so when I looked at this model, I think this is something that could and should be repeated.

KC (22:34):

Absolutely.

Alexander McCaig (22:35):

Okay. And if we can't deliver free healthcare to everyone, we should still make it as cheap as humanly possible to keep people alive.

KC (22:41):

And keeping it steady and patients know it's there, and so they're not trying to remove the screw on their own because they're like, Oh, I've got this clinic I can go to and it's not going to cost, there's no out-of-pocket costs. I know I can go there and I don't get a surprise bill, or I'm not walking out and they're like, it's $200 please.

Jason Rigby (22:56):

Well, it's like for me, the VA, if I show up at the VA right now, I'm going to wait four hours.

KC (23:00):

But you're not going to pay anything.

Jason Rigby (23:01):

Yeah, but I'm not going to pay anything but I'm going to wait four hours. Why wouldn't a VA outsource to direct primary care? It would be so much cheaper for them. With that bureaucracy, I guarantee you, me waiting for four hours and me seeing how much that's getting billed to the government is probably crazy.

KC (23:18):

You know, it's funny because you have the availability to go there for free because you are a veteran. You pay for it in some sort of aspect, but you choose to be like, this time violation that's happening while I'm sitting here, I'd rather just go pay 75 bucks.

Jason Rigby (23:32):

If my leg gets chopped off in a car accident or something, I'll be there. Other than that, I'm going to go see Casey.

KC (23:37):

We have many VA beneficiaries in our clinic.

Alexander McCaig (23:41):

No, that's amazing.

KC (23:42):

Many.

Alexander McCaig (23:43):

I've got to tell you, I slammed my toe against the rock wall the other day and ripped half of it off. Not the toe itself but the toenail. It's disgusting looking.

KC (23:50):

It's my medical advice to not do that again.

Alexander McCaig (23:52):

Yeah, I'm going to try not to.

Jason Rigby (23:53):

Wow, this is revolutionary.

Alexander McCaig (23:56):

You know, you're just dumping saline on it and it's burning, but you know what? I'm sidetracking. I don't want to talk about my own injuries. What I want to know then, closing this out, what is the message that you want to deliver? If you were to just consolidate everything you just told me, what do you want to say right now to close this out so it's impactful and you leave with people knowing, that makes sense, time to make a change.

KC (24:17):

Companies have a lot of power in our US healthcare system. I can't speak to other countries because I'm not intimately familiar with how they're all structured, but in this country, companies have a lot of power in the cost of healthcare and they need to start making changes and looking for other solutions, because they're there. There's books on it, it's present and I can go so far to say, it's their fiduciary duty to their company and their employees to change how they're paying for healthcare because it's not working. It's killing them. That's my statement.

Alexander McCaig (24:47):

Enough said.

Speaker 1 (24:56):

Thank you for listening to TARTLE Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanity steps into the future and source data defines the path. What's your data worth?