Ethical Data Sourcing and Collection - What Is Data Ethics?

Speaker 1 (00:07):

Welcome to TARTLE Cast with your host Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanities steps into the future and Source data defines the path.

Alexander McCaig (00:27):

Good morning, welcome back to TARTLE Casts, it is March 2nd, at 10:16 in the morning, mountain standard time.

Jason Rigby (00:32):

What is up Alexander McCaig?

Alexander McCaig (00:34):

What's going on, Jason Rigby?

Jason Rigby (00:36):

I wanted to kind of get into a little bit about... We talk a lot about sellers of data and there's an exchange on this TARTLE's marketplace of people purchasing data, buyers. And I think it's important to understand the philosophy of TARTLE and what we look at. And there's some expectations and there's some responsibilities, but this ethical data sourcing and you talk about this a lot, but when you use the word ethical, what does that mean?

Alexander McCaig (01:08):

What does that mean? So I've spoken with a lot of big time data researchers, I'm not just floating this around. This is a concern of theirs that they do a lot of their analysis on third party data where they're not really sure where it's been before, how the person acquired it.

Jason Rigby (01:30):

There's a gray area.

Alexander McCaig (01:31):

There's a real gray area. And for them, they're like, well, this is the only thing I have to use and I don't feel good about using it. And they want to know where it came from. It's a lot like when you go to dinner, you want to know where that piece of meat came from. People love the idea of when farm to table came out, when that became popular. I want you to take that concept in your mind as a person that's acquiring data, buying it, to say I want to ethically source my data. I want to source it from the farmer. And if that farmer is that individual human being on the other side, I want to have that interaction with them. I want to meet them at the farm and be like, show me the head of cattle, show me the root vegetables, show me how you pick them out, show me the crate that they come in.

Jason Rigby (02:17):

There's the chicken where we got the eggs from.

Alexander McCaig (02:19):

That's precisely correct. Your perspective, your value about all those things begin to change. And also because you're so close to the source of where that's coming from, your intimate understanding of that data becomes just exponentially larger than it was before when you were getting this third party data. So not only do you feel good about it and you know that there's a good value in the way you're requiring that data, but also the depth and granularity of your understanding of that data becomes something that is completely unmatched.

Jason Rigby (02:50):

So we talk about this a lot, especially in our meetings, is rethinking how we interact with and analyze data So, when ever we think of rethinking, what is that thought process in rethinking how we interact and analyze data?

Alexander McCaig (03:11):

Our idea of rethinking stems from one thing and one thing only, is that we take a view of looking at things in the light of a human being, everything about this as a human being, if you are thousands of miles away and still purchasing data, acquiring it, ethically sourcing it from the marketplace. I want you to know that on the other side, there is a human being who's put time and labor into this product. They're proud of what they've created, they've essentially come to this marketplace with their offering of goods, and you can look at this throughout history. And it's not the aspect of the fact that, Oh, there's a marketplace, it's more to that. It's the human being that is creating this, it's interaction between two people coming together to feel good about what they're doing. Thank you for seeing the value in what I have created, in sharing in that value, so that we can find joy in this.

Alexander McCaig (04:10):

And then I'm grateful for the interaction we have later,. Now that I've acquired that information from you and I know that through my paying of resource to you for this other resource and return, we've both elevated each other. And if you can look with that perspective on what it means through that sort of interaction, that human being to human being interaction, right? Entity to entity, then we are evolving to what it means to actually interact in a civilized manner, rather than think of our world as this zero sum limited bleak future. We want to show that there's great value and joy and prosperity and hope of uplifting all of us at the same time.

Jason Rigby (04:55):

And you have these three pillars that you talk about with data ownership and the journey that you know that a buyer of data through TARTLE can master. And these three pillars are time, work, and responsibility. Let's start with time.

Alexander McCaig (05:09):

Yeah time, right? All great things do not just happen instantaneously. It's going to take some breadth of time for us to refine things through, it's like a fine wine. And if you don't allow it the time to happen or be patient with yourself in that process, you won't be able to find that fine wine or be able to source it from that vendor that you were specifically looking for. It's a search, okay. And that's going to take moment to moment to moment. And what's the next one we have on-

Jason Rigby (05:41):

Work.

Alexander McCaig (05:42):

Work, right? You have to work through it. No-one's going to hand it to you. And if you need to find something that's going to solve what needs solving, you got to massage the minutiae and kind of tailor it and reform it into something like a piece of clay for yourself. So you can be like, ah, this works, this is really working. But that time and that work, the combination of those things are going to lead you on that more Evolut of path for your business, and also how your business is interacting with the rest of the world.

Jason Rigby (06:17):

Yeah and the third pillar is responsibility.

Alexander McCaig (06:19):

And responsibility, okay. This is somebody else's life that you are looking into with a microscope. You need to be responsible with how you ask those questions with how you handle that data and how you analyze it and then truthfully share that analysis back with those people or the ones that have interacted with that data, or the ones that interact with your company. So this time, this work, and this responsibility define your interaction with that data itself, your interaction with that other human being beyond just a one-time, a small brief moment. This is a long-term value.

Jason Rigby (07:04):

Yeah. And whenever we look at this world of ethical data sourcing, and then we see these three pillars to me that word ethical, these pillars create that, the time, the work, and the responsibility.

Alexander McCaig (07:18):

You build relationships, you build lifetime value with these sellers in this marketplace, you're meeting them where they are. There's already the first bridge of respect that has been built to say, we're going to come to TARTLE to acquire this data and we're going to require it from those individuals directly. Now you're respecting them as a human being. You're respecting their labors, their labors of love, you're respecting their thoughts and behaviors. You're respecting every interaction they have, regardless of the locale in the world. This is saying a lot about you and the responsibility you are taking as a human being and the human being operating within that entity itself, that business.

Jason Rigby (08:05):

Yeah. And we talk about solving your challenges and humanity's challenges at large. When I look at the word challenge and we see a personal individualistic challenge, and then we see humanity at large challenge. When you think of challenge and we think of TARTLE, what type of visualization do you get when you... Because challenge is a big word, and I think it we can recognize it as a challenge, but then we don't meditate on it or ponder on it, in a way that we should to understand the challenges that we face.

Alexander McCaig (08:47):

When people hear the word challenge, they perceive it in almost a negative sense, a vast majority do.

Jason Rigby (08:54):

I got to get to point A to point B and it's going to be tough.

Alexander McCaig (08:56):

Yeah, and it's going to be tough. Sure, sure, it will. Okay. And in order to get from point A to point B, there's learning that has to be done. And we've been ignoring our learning as a collective. And now it's time for us to wake up and pay attention to this challenges that's in front of us. We've laid out these problems for ourselves, we've confronted ourselves with these issues, right? Things with our climate, things with public health, all this stuff, we have built up these problems. This is a great challenge for us. So we need to come and meet that challenge and that's going to take that time, work and responsibility, but understand this is not something negative. This is but a stronger moment in time for us to learn, this journey from point A to point B, that's your lifetime classroom. And you as an entity, a business, you have to solve your own challenges, but in solving your own challenges also helped solve the challenges of everybody else that is directly and indirectly interacting with what you are doing. Nothing is not interconnected in some sense through some degree.

Jason Rigby (10:08):

So how could a seller teach a buyer?

Alexander McCaig (10:13):

A seller teaches a buyer by being honest and truthful, by sharing as much as possible. Coming back to that buyer, many, many, many, many times to say, "Look at what I have to offer today, look at this offering, look at what you can learn from me." And then through you purchasing it, look what I can learn from you about your values and where you sit as a business. This is an important interaction, it's like this balanced idea of learning and teaching, teaching and learning. That shared concept that shared respect for one another is an elevated approach to solving these problems for moving from point A to point B, that time, work, and responsibility.

Jason Rigby (10:54):

Well, how would TARTLE's marketplace or data in general have that ability to do that?

Alexander McCaig (10:59):

Well data has the ability to do that because data is a reflection of the human being. What's going on in the human beings mind causes it to do all these things that then become captured in the essence of data. So when you're working with data, you're working with human beings and their thoughts and behaviors, that's what's really going on. So when you go to make that purchase, right, or you go to create that data packet or whatever it is you're trying to confound for some sort of idea here that needs to be solved in your mind, understand that there's a human being on the other side that can help you in solving that because we as a collective of human beings are the ones that created that problem. So your solve, your puzzle piece is out there, you need to go find it, put that puzzle together.

Jason Rigby (11:43):

And the answer is in the seller?

Alexander McCaig (11:45):

And the answer is in that seller.

Jason Rigby (11:47):

Because it's a human.

Alexander McCaig (11:48):

It's in that human being on the other side, don't look at it just in the fact that, Oh, it's a piece of data. Do not distance yourself from the truth, become closer to it. Aluminate within your own mind and in your own thoughts that the human being is right there on the other side. They are all, but a mouse click away for you interacting with them.

Jason Rigby (12:09):

I think this is what makes TARTLE's marketplace so unique compared to anything that is out there is this ethically sourcing consent driven data.

Alexander McCaig (12:19):

That's the thing, someone chose to meet you there. You chose to be there, they chose to be there. They chose to put their data in it, you chose to create a data packet. You chose to buy it, they chose to sell it. You've both met each other on the same plane. No one's forced any other person to do something that otherwise wouldn't want to do, that's how consent works. It's people in their own respect, in their own right, in their own free will coming together to say, this is something we both want to do, that's that idea. And this removes all of those issues with third-party data and the sourcing and how it makes your gut currently feel as a researcher, a business entity from what you have been acquiring.

Jason Rigby (13:01):

So we know the world has these challenging problems, and we know that they need to be solved and technology data can solve these problems. How can a buyer help in that?

Alexander McCaig (13:16):

You can help in this, because the data you buy, your focus is going to be on data that is reflected or tagged or associated with these major things that we're confronted with, that fall underneath our big seven. So you could buy a data packet, that's specifically for you, you could be as selfish as you want. I just want to do this for my company, I'm trying to make a buck. But then if you're buying data to understand the social impact of your product, now we taken a new turn. Now we've seen that when I've purchased this data, it's having a direct effect on elevating people economically, allowing us to analyze data that comes back to help solve a problem, that may deal with educational access or climate stability.

Alexander McCaig (14:05):

Now the idea has changed here, it's not just about the shareholders now in the data you're acquiring, it's the stakeholders within that data. Those stakeholders are human beings. It's the planet, it's the critters, the creatures, anything that flies, crawls, you name it, all those things are going to be involved with this. And when you open up that holistic view, right? That wider perspective, you can see the great good, the interconnected, indirect, decentralized good that is created through acquiring this data that has a focus on it, dealing with these major problems.

Jason Rigby (14:39):

So I'm going to use a big word here, and it's not used a lot, in our Big Seven, number six is government and corporate transparency. I'm going to use the word respect. So when we talk about this at TARTLE all the time, it's respecting people's data, privacy and values. And then we look at this TARTLE collective of data champions. So from the buyer's side, if you could put yourself in a buyer's shoe, what does respect look like when it comes to data privacy and these values that these data champions are having?

Alexander McCaig (15:13):

The number one torch bearing thing you could do to show that you respect human beings and the labor they're putting into this, is by meeting them in the marketplace. That's it, it's fundamentally that simple. This is not a very complicated thing here. This is saying, I respect you so much that I want to come to you directly and ask you for this information and I'm willing to pay you for it.

Jason Rigby (15:37):

Yes, I get that, yeah.

Alexander McCaig (15:38):

That is a very, very high level of respect. You respect them as a human being, you respect their labor, their time, their work, and their truthfulness that they are putting into this. And if we can continue to match that, this begins to create a paradigm shift, a legitimate paradigm shift in how we are interacting with one another, especially through the use of the internet. How we use technology, it's no longer technology for technology sake, it's technology to help humanity sake. We're bringing both of those paths back together. When they've been diverted. One has evolved so quickly and we've left the other one behind. We need to bring them back and that's what's happening here.

Jason Rigby (16:18):

So we always say TARTLE was made for your benefit. So as a buyer of data, what is that benefit? Why is you as a co-founder and this vision that you had for TARTLE, how has it made for a buyer's benefit?

Alexander McCaig (16:38):

Let's think about your goodwill. It's one of actually the major things in the value of a brand. It's your benefit to say, Hey, we're CVS, we're Walmart, we're Facebook. We want to come ethically source this information from you. The seller on the other sides going to be like, Oh, this is fantastic. When I otherwise had no direct association with this firm, now I'm having direct contact with them and they're willing to show me how much they value me. Think about what this does for your brand, that's just in the brand aspect, building that trust with those stakeholders. And then after that, you also have a decrease of risk because you're removing all those hunches, which you've been operating on.

Alexander McCaig (17:28):

You have very granular, like microscopic data to solve whatever needs to be solved. You're going to the atomic level here, all right. You're so micro and when you apply it altogether, it gives you an accurate macro picture of where you need to be headed. So I'm respecting these people, I'm building my brand goodwill, I'm decreasing my risk, and I'm essentially decreasing my cost and economic waste over time. That is a model that should be worked with, that is a model that is designed for your benefit beyond just the benefit of interacting with the marketplace, but for the longevity of your company, for the longevity of your ideas, for the longevity of your brand, that's why it's there for you.

Jason Rigby (18:15):

Yeah. And I get what you're saying was made for your benefit, and I understand that, but I want to kind of get a little bit more granular and understand the support values that we have. We talk about this a lot, these support values, this expectation of trust, value, security, and transparency and education. I mean, as Sherpas, that's important.

Alexander McCaig (18:35):

Yeah. We have that model of the Sherpa, this is not about us. This is about you and the other individual coming together to meet, right. And if we're not clear about that meeting, if we're not clear where that point needs to occur, if someone is kind of keeping their cards down and not showing them what the pricing is or what the intention might be, that dissolves trust at a very quick rate. And if we cannot continue to bring that clarity and trust and education of these processes from party to party, and them also interacting with us as the person facilitating this, that's a problem. I wouldn't want to go across a bridge, if I knew that it wasn't built by engineers who knew what they were doing.

Alexander McCaig (19:20):

I want to know that it's been overbuilt, that it will stand the test of time for 10,000 years. That it will be there in any sort of windstorm or whatever it might be, any sort of up rest that may be occurring. I want to know with absolute certainty that the foundation that is laid is strong so that when we go to do things that are cutting edge or taking that very next step, I know that I'm supported by TARTLE in the background. They're there for us, and we will be transparent, we will educate you in that process, we will help you with those resources and your own journey.

Jason Rigby (19:55):

So, to close this out, we're working with assisting, helping, these trust values, security, transparent education, this data journey that the buyer's going to take and TARTLE's coming along and helping in assisting with that. But I mean, it's a huge data journey. Whether they're working for Johnson and Johnson, or they're working for Deutsche Bank and wherever it may be around the world. And what would you say to someone that is purchasing data, these buyers that are out there, what does that data journey look like? Not just with TARTLE, but in general, if you had to give some advice to someone that's purchasing data, what would you say along that journey?

Alexander McCaig (20:41):

What you've currently been doing is akin to picking up scraps, your third party data, all that stuff, they're just the scraps. This is not the real Turkey breast, it's not the real meat of the situation. You don't get to sit down and feast at that table of knowledge, hasn't been there. But in order for you to actually create that feast, to meet everyone there and celebrate in the sharing, this requires work. This requires the farm, this requires the labor, this requires the raising of these resources. That is a journey in itself, the one you were taking was short-sighted, it had no journey, it had no lifetime value to it. You were just there to collect the remnants of things that were floating around, but you really didn't understand why those things were floating around. What was their progenitor? Those haven't been there, that's been a miss for you.

Alexander McCaig (21:36):

So now when you begin to take this journey, you need to see all the aspects that are involved, the human beings involved, the resources that become a part of this. You need to understand all of it intimately, because once you do, you can be grateful for that experience. You have the joy in finding what needs to be found. And then in reflection later through that journey, when you go from step to step to step, you are grateful for those challenges from point A to B, B to C and so on. Does that make sense?

Jason Rigby (22:03):

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks Alex.

Alexander McCaig (22:04):

Thank you.

Speaker 1 (22:10):

Thank you for listening to TARTLE Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanities steps into the future and Source data defines the path. What's your data worth?