Apple is no stranger to controversies around data. They’ve regularly been accused of collecting data and failing to announce it. They also have used their ubiquitous iPhones to track users wherever they may be. Despite the problems of the past, it would seem that Apple and their CEO Tm Cook are turning over a new leaf. How so? In a recent interview with Fast Company magazine, Cook put data privacy right below the climate as one of the major issues of the day. He went further and expressed concern that protections for end-to-end encryption were being weakened.
Apple’s end-to-end encryption for its users first became an issue following a shooting in San Bernardino a few years ago. The shooters were iPhone users and the FBI very much wanted Apple to unlock it for them so they could use the phone’s information to determine if the shooters were acting on their own or if they were part of a larger terrorist cell. Much to the surprise of many, Cook refused, even though the terrorists were already dead. The heir to Steve Job’s throne realized that as soon as they unlocked the phone, it would be easy to reverse engineer the process, opening up people to being spied on by the government.
Part of Apple’s latest data privacy initiative is the App Tracking Transparency feature of the next iOS update. One of the interesting aspects of this is that rather than feeding everyone a bunch of advertising based on the data gleaned from their apps, users will now be asked if they want to be tracked for advertising purposes. Finally, Apple customers will actually have a choice as to whether or not they want to be surveilled all the time. That in itself is borderline revolutionary and has no doubt upset a few people in the app store.
One of the big tech companies that isn’t happy about the change that Apple is making is Facebook. They actually expect their ad revenue from Apple to be cut in half as a result of that change. Given that their typical ad revenue is over $80 billion, we aren’t talking about chump change. Just think about that, Facebook is making $80 billion a year off of advertising to you on Apple products.
Now, is that the whole story? Probably not. Tim Cook is an intelligent individual and he very much understands the value of data. If anyone grasps the concept of data as the new gold, it would be him. After all, Apple has the most tight-knit ecosystem of hardware and software on the planet. Remember, the FBI wanted the San Bernardino terrorists’ iPhones because they knew how much data is in there. Just because Apple isn’t eager to share it with anyone else, whether it be the FBI or the makers of Candy Crush doesn’t mean they don’t know everything you do on their phones. They know where you are, what you’re buying, how many apps you have, which ones you use, etc. Remember, that new transparency feature just asks if you want to be tracked for advertising purposes. It doesn’t say anything about being tracked for any other reason. In short, that $40 billion that Facebook stands to lose isn’t really disappearing, it’s just going into Apple’s pocket instead.
Is this a cynical take? Maybe. However, it has been shown that Apple tracks your location even when they say they don’t. It’s also been proven that the tech giant plans obsolescence into their devices, making you much more likely to spend money on a new one sooner than you normally would. Especially given that you are already locked into their ecosystem.
In the end, despite Cook’s words, Apple’s actions at the end of the day still look like a company that is more about getting as much money as they can out of everyone rather than trying to help people first. Trust us, you can run a profitable company and still be people focused rather than dollar focused. Maybe you won’t be the most cash-rich company on the planet but you’ll still be a leader. The difference is you’ll be a leader in how you help people improve their lives rather than merely a leader piling up dollars in the back room.
What’s your data worth?
Despite the problems of the past, it would seem that Apple and their CEO Tm Cook are turning over a new leaf. How so? In a recent interview with Fast Company magazine, Cook put data privacy right below the climate as one of the major issues of the day.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to TARTLE Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby. Where humanity steps into the future, and source data defines the path.
Alexander McCaig (00:27):
Nothing like some good soap box commentary over here, like some big tech drama. Let's talk about the data news. Welcome back to TARTLE Cast. You're here with Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, if you don't know us, this is our probably 140th episode. Jason, let's kick it off with Tim Cook, screaming about data privacy. What's he saying here?
Jason Rigby (00:49):
So he is the Apple CEO. He took over-
Alexander McCaig (00:51):
He is the Chief Executive Officer.
Jason Rigby (00:54):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (00:55):
Runs the show.
Jason Rigby (00:56):
He runs the show for Apple.
Alexander McCaig (00:57):
Of one of the more wealthy tech companies across the globe.
Jason Rigby (00:59):
Yeah-
Alexander McCaig (00:59):
Just want to lay that found-
Jason Rigby (01:01):
They have more cash in the bank than a lot of GDPs of small countries.
Alexander McCaig (01:06):
Yeah, I just wanted to, I just wanted to lay that foundation.
Jason Rigby (01:09):
So he came out on an interview. He was at a keynote speech at Computers, Privacy and Data Protection Conference in Brussels. And he said, this: "Climate change should be number one, and data privacy should be number two of the biggest concerns that we have on the globe."
Alexander McCaig (01:26):
Our number one concern right here is climate stability.
Jason Rigby (01:29):
So we agree with them a hundred percent on both.
Alexander McCaig (01:31):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Jason Rigby (01:32):
And he said that they need to have more deep thinking and that we need to get countries together to dissolve this. Part of the worry though, about data privacy, and I'm going to have you talk to this, resolves around the threat to weaken end-to-end encryption. And he said this, "This is something that law enforcement around the world is serious about. You know, I'm a big believer in encryption."
Alexander McCaig (01:54):
Okay. Let's hold the phone here. You are the CEO of one of the most cash rich tech companies in the world. All of your users are generating a bunch of data, which apparently you own if you look at your terms and conditions. And you say that "I am a believer"? Let's talk about what believer is. And you know, I do not like this word.
Jason Rigby (02:18):
Right.
Alexander McCaig (02:18):
When you believe something that means you don't have the facts. You haven't done the research. So you need to rely on other people to tell you what the real world is or what the fake world is. That means you're a believer. You haven't put in the work. Tim Cook, if you are the CEO of this company, why don't you go do the research on encryption? Look at its ancient past, you can start right here on Wikipedia. I'm pointing up to the TV. Wikipedia, encryption page. Start right here. We'll talk about end-to-end encryption. Okay. Let's talk about the safety of those things. And by the way, there is a very strong, there's a dichotomy here going on. End-to-end encryption, all right? Sort of these trustless systems, which is the highest point of encryption, where there doesn't have to be a middleman, that puts a lot of these people out of business. The government doesn't like that because they want someone to at least have some sort of access.
Jason Rigby (03:10):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (03:10):
Right? So it's not... The reason it's such a high thing for them to look at as like, for governments and law enforcements, because great that we have encryption, but let's not do too much, because we're completely locked out, we're screwed.
Jason Rigby (03:24):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (03:25):
That's like saying, "I'm going to take my assets and I'm going to put it in the bank. All right? I feel good cause I got a key and I know the banks there and they're protecting the vault and everything, but the feds still have a key to my vault. And they can use it whenever they choose to do so. I don't think so. That's not what that is. And when you come off and you say that you're a believer in end-to-end encryption, well then you need to say that we don't need any guy in the middle. We need a totally trustless system. Don't believe in it. Do the research, see the benefit. And it may harm your business models that you have, because Apple realizes that they're touting about data privacy, because data is such a significant asset to them.
Jason Rigby (04:06):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (04:07):
They know the economic value of data.
Jason Rigby (04:10):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (04:10):
That is why they're talking about data privacy. It's not for your benefit. They make hardware, that tracks and logs everything you do. That's what they're in the business of. Yeah, they'll say they're not going to share it with anyone on the outside, of course, why wouldn't they say something like that? But data is their business. When you go on the app store, they know how long you're on there, what apps you clicked on, how many times it's been downloaded, who it's being downloaded from, all that stuff. Those are their moneymakers. That's the sweet spot for them. They love data. So if they can find a way to protect their asset, of course, they're going to talk about it. And then push it off in the limelight to say, we're doing this for the public.
Jason Rigby (04:46):
Well, this is what I think is funny right now. There's a huge fight, of Facebook versus Apple.
Alexander McCaig (04:51):
Oh my God. Drama.
Jason Rigby (04:51):
Because Apple's new app-tracking transparency feature is going to debut this next update on iOS.
Alexander McCaig (04:57):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (04:58):
And Facebook is hating this. This is crazy, I'm going to talk about something and it's going to blow your mind, Alex. This will force iOS users to opt in with third party apps that they want to continue being tracked for advertising purposes.
Alexander McCaig (05:10):
Continue.
Jason Rigby (05:10):
So now you're going to have-
Alexander McCaig (05:11):
Dude, think about that comment.
Jason Rigby (05:12):
On my, because I have an iPhone right here, on my iPhone it's going to have a little button, "Do you want to be tracked for locations on third-party..." from, maybe it'll pop up and say "Facebook" and I clicked "No". So, that's what Facebook's worried about. Listen to this. Cook spoke about those who don't see ad tracking of their privacy as his problem. He said, "I tried to get somebody to think about what happens in a world where you know that you're being surveilled all the time. What changes do you make in your own behavior? What do you do less of? What do you do more? And what do you not do anymore?" And so he begins to ask these questions, but here's what he said about the Apple's app tracking transparency feature. Facebook derives a vast majority of its income from serving up ads and is in a position to lose a significant chunk of this change. So we're going to define how much money Facebook's going to lose off of location. Because this is just saying location data.
Alexander McCaig (06:02):
Yeah, it said that.
Jason Rigby (06:04):
85 billion last year, Facebook made off of ad revenue. They're saying if Apple forces this iOS user to opt in to be tracked it, they're going to... That's going to be cut in half. They're going to lose $42-43 billion because of this one little third party... That's how much-
Alexander McCaig (06:22):
That's how much it's worth to them.
Jason Rigby (06:24):
I want people to understand that their data, their location data is worth that much.
Alexander McCaig (06:28):
So where's that 40 billion then going to go? Right back to Apple.
Jason Rigby (06:31):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (06:32):
That's just how it works. You cut one guy off, you can pick up the reins.
Jason Rigby (06:35):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (06:36):
And they'll come out with some other type of technology that has some sort of like safe tracking or whatever it might be, that allows them to then recoup that and say, "Okay, why don't you give us the location data? And then we'll go resell it."
Jason Rigby (06:48):
Yeah, and then he also, his last part of the speech was, not to group Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Amazon, big tech altogether. He said, this is his quote: "I think it's important for people not to categorize big tech in a way that would make people, view it to be monolithic, because I think that companies are actually quite different compared to one another."
Alexander McCaig (07:06):
Yeah, of course they're different. But your incentive structure in the way you've actually foundationally set up your company is strictly for making money. What are you talking about? You're monolithic moneymakers.
Jason Rigby (07:16):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (07:17):
That's what you are.
Jason Rigby (07:18):
Off of the backs of people's data.
Alexander McCaig (07:19):
Off of the backs of people's data. You're monolithic moneymakers off the backs of people's data. Why do you have all the money in the world? And you keep building cell phones that cost a thousand dollars. Are you not worried? You're not considering like how many people need access to the internet and how beneficial it could be? Make it cost nothing. You could shell out iPhones for a whole year for free.
Jason Rigby (07:38):
Or, why not even, us pay more for an iPhone. We can even pay more for an iPhone and make it eco-friendly.
Alexander McCaig (07:46):
Yeah, like-
Jason Rigby (07:47):
That the source, the source of where that... Where all those parts have come.
Alexander McCaig (07:51):
I-
Jason Rigby (07:51):
Whenever I see... Whenever I saw those nets at the factory, those suicide nets?
Alexander McCaig (07:55):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (07:55):
That's when I was like, "Okay, we've got a problem."
Alexander McCaig (07:57):
Yeah. Like Foxconn and stuff like that.
Jason Rigby (07:58):
Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (08:00):
Here's what I want to say. Tim Cook, I love that you're saying all this stuff. Great. Phenomenal. Climate change and data privacy. We a hundred percent agree with that. Why don't you prove to us, like we prove to our user base every single day, how our system works?
Jason Rigby (08:19):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (08:20):
Prove to us you don't look through the logs. Show us how you make your money.
Jason Rigby (08:25):
Be transparent.
Alexander McCaig (08:26):
Be transparent about your app store, what you track, what is recorded.
Jason Rigby (08:30):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (08:30):
How you feel about individual's data on your thing. Don't just say it like, "Oh, you know we never check..." Well, then what are you doing with it?
Jason Rigby (08:38):
Because you know, Alex also I knew, they know that if they make statements and those statements are false, they're going to be in lawsuits for years.
Alexander McCaig (08:44):
You're in deep, deep, do-do. Step up to the plate, be transparent.
Jason Rigby (08:47):
A hundred percent-
Alexander McCaig (08:48):
And don't just like do some sort of combative thing with Facebook saying you're going to cripple their revenue, and obviously you're going to collect later. Because that money has to be driven somewhere else.
Jason Rigby (08:57):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (08:58):
Don't put up walls, build bridges. And also be transparent. You don't need to be crippling Facebook. It's not necessary. But there's some other way we can figure this out where you guys don't need to just be raking data off the backs of other people. Why don't you go to TARTLE and buy the location data from them? Rather than offering them to give it up for free, which has $40 billion worth of value?
Jason Rigby (09:22):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (09:22):
That's insane. Think about what $40 billion does to somebody in India. For a whole month, $40 feeds their entire family and pays their rent. Come on. You tell me people don't have an iPhone in India also?
Jason Rigby (09:34):
Yeah. It's a social responsibility for each of us to look at this global perspective and say, now that I've been given this ability to be the CEO of this company or whatever it may be, and we do this, we do this all the time, Alex, whenever we look at TARTLE, it's like, how are we going to be responsible? In our actions?
Alexander McCaig (09:58):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (09:58):
And how are we going to elevate humanity?
Alexander McCaig (10:01):
Correct.
Jason Rigby (10:01):
And how can we do greater good-
Alexander McCaig (10:04):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Jason Rigby (10:06):
...for the globe?
Alexander McCaig (10:06):
Yeah, let me-
Jason Rigby (10:07):
Don't just talk about stuff.
Alexander McCaig (10:09):
Do it!
Jason Rigby (10:09):
Execute.
Alexander McCaig (10:10):
Yeah, execute on it. Here's how TARTLE makes money. You want to know? A buyer pays a hundred percent to the seller for their data. And then they pay us 5%.
Jason Rigby (10:18):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Alexander McCaig (10:20):
There's our business model. Does TARTLE look at your data? No. Do they have access to your data? No.
Jason Rigby (10:24):
Are you anonymous? Yes.
Alexander McCaig (10:26):
Yes. Is it easy to sign up? Yes. Are you educated every step of the process? Do we give you tool tips and help you out with complete wizard, so you know exactly what's going on? Yes. Wake up, smell the coffee. Tell people, put your money where your mouth is. And I'm going to say that right now. Show us what you do. Show us how you make your money. You shouldn't be shy to do so.
Jason Rigby (10:46):
And that would distinguish you from other big tech.
Alexander McCaig (10:50):
That would distinguish you from the-
Jason Rigby (10:51):
Then you wouldn't be [crosstalk 00:10:51].
Alexander McCaig (10:53):
The monoliths, right? And don't you dare say anything akin to Stanley Kubrick and his genius film, Space Odyssey. Okay? And apply that to big tech.
Jason Rigby (11:01):
What I love too is, it's... You remember the old Hollywood stars that would be sitting at the top of the stairs and be like, "Oh darling..."
Alexander McCaig (11:09):
Yeah, darling, it's in black and white, long flowing gown, thin cigarette-
Jason Rigby (11:13):
Yeah and just-
Alexander McCaig (11:13):
Because of the freudian-
Jason Rigby (11:13):
Right.
Alexander McCaig (11:16):
Marketing schemes that have been going on.
Jason Rigby (11:18):
And just so out of touch with what's happening.
Alexander McCaig (11:20):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (11:21):
In the real world.
Alexander McCaig (11:22):
No idea because their mansion's so huge, it's enough real estate. They don't need to go outside. I'm taken care of [crosstalk 00:11:26]
Jason Rigby (11:25):
Yeah and I'm not opposed to having wealth or any of those things.
Alexander McCaig (11:28):
No.
Jason Rigby (11:29):
What we're saying though is, you can run... There is examples for you. You can run a profitable company and be ethical.
Alexander McCaig (11:39):
I'll just use one example, T A R T L E.co.
Jason Rigby (11:42):
Yes. It's that simple.
Alexander McCaig (11:44):
Like both people can win?
Jason Rigby (11:46):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (11:47):
It's not a zero sum game? What an interesting positive world, what a refreshing future that has focus on seven major items that increases the longevity of the human race. Okay. Solves our major issues and we can economically incentivize people?
Jason Rigby (12:04):
Wow.
Alexander McCaig (12:04):
Wow. Everybody can win?
Jason Rigby (12:07):
And if you invented this marketplace in your bathrobe...
Alexander McCaig (12:11):
I did.
Jason Rigby (12:12):
Then we can see there are other minds that are-
Alexander McCaig (12:15):
The bathrobe.
Jason Rigby (12:15):
Out there.
Alexander McCaig (12:17):
It's true.
Jason Rigby (12:17):
There are other minds that are out there, in their bathrobes...
Alexander McCaig (12:20):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (12:21):
That can sit there and say, "Yeah, I want to make a lot of money. That's cool. But at the end of the day, what am I leaving as a legacy for this globe?"
Alexander McCaig (12:32):
That's the best question-
Jason Rigby (12:32):
And what does it look like? I was listening to... We'll close on this. I was listening to Lex Friedman, shout out to him, I love his podcast. He's an AI scientist. And he had another, he had one of the leading AI scientists, and this AI scientist said this. He goes, "2100, we're done." So he he's like all the models point to that. And he goes, if we cannot figure out, and he goes, I don't know if AI is going to go bad or good or whatever, but he goes, the director we're at now as a planet. It needs... And we're hearing this over and over and over again with the smartest minds that are out there, is that he goes, from now and what is that? 80? No, we have 70 something years? Yeah. So-
Alexander McCaig (13:10):
79.
Jason Rigby (13:10):
Yeah. 79 years we have left. And this guy is one of the smartest people in the world. And he's... And everybody's saying 50, 70, 80, 100 years at the most. No one's pushing past a hundred years. So you have to think about your grandkids?
Alexander McCaig (13:23):
Could we add some zeros onto that thing?
Jason Rigby (13:24):
Are going to be sitting there and seeing a meltdown. The world will no longer exist. You're going to have Mad Max happening to your grandkids.
Alexander McCaig (13:34):
Yeah, like the next time, the Gen Z, when they start to have children, those kids will only have 20 years.
Jason Rigby (13:43):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (13:44):
They won't be able to grow up.
Jason Rigby (13:46):
No. We need to really think about that. And it's so cool for you to have your models, your marketing allocation models and channels, people into this and this, and which one creates the most profit, and we have the best conversion rate with this and this and this. That's all awesome. I get that. But how is it helping-
Alexander McCaig (14:07):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (14:07):
Those that you serve? Whether you're... If you're a corporation and you have responsibility, you have responsibility to the people that are your end users. And those are the people that you serve. If you're a government you are elected to serve.
Alexander McCaig (14:19):
Yes.
Jason Rigby (14:20):
Anyone that has the ability to have power over someone else, and that power was given to you. It is your responsibility to turn around and to take that power and use it for the greater good.
Alexander McCaig (14:31):
The highest good.
Jason Rigby (14:32):
The highest good.
Alexander McCaig (14:33):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (14:33):
And that is elevating the person that you're serving, not taking and doing. And we talked about this offer, and I want to mention it, not doing data slavery.
Alexander McCaig (14:42):
That's what it is a state of slavery.
Jason Rigby (14:44):
And it's ridiculous. And these companies need to look and say, "Hey, it's great we made billions of billions of dollars, but 2100 we're done."
Alexander McCaig (14:52):
I want to take 10 seconds of silence right now.
Alexander McCaig (14:56):
(silence).
Alexander McCaig (15:07):
I hope that what we just said resonates with you in... We allotted for that silence so that you can feel the emotion and passion and logic that is behind what we are saying.
Jason Rigby (15:22):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (15:23):
So don't forget it, think about it. And we will always be here to support you.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Thank you for listening to TARTLE Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby. Where humanity steps into the future, and the source data defines the path... What's your data worth?
