Watch Our BIG Take on Human Rights, Tech, & Governments Now!

Jason Rigby (00:12):

Yes. Everybody just deleted this episode.

Alexander McCaig (00:15):

Yeah. It's already gone.

Jason Rigby (00:16):

We're out.

Alexander McCaig (00:17):

All right. What's the government want to throw at us today?

Jason Rigby (00:19):

High quality data sets.

Alexander McCaig (00:20):

Oh, good for them.

Jason Rigby (00:23):

They're saying that they're critically important for training many types of AI systems. So first of all, what is a high quality data set and who rates this?

Alexander McCaig (00:33):

Yeah. Who determined the quality? A high quality data set is one where the government's saying does it respect an individual's rights? First of all, that's hilarious. And then the second part is is it identifiable enough that it gives us enough granular information in who that person actually is, but respecting their rights for us to enhance our algorithms?

Jason Rigby (00:58):

Yeah. It's curious to me, because the federal government has, I mean, here in new Mexico where we're at, we have two labs that are kicking in working in this arena, and they're artificial intelligence, I imagine, even just, what, 10 miles from us?

Alexander McCaig (01:13):

Yeah.

Jason Rigby (01:13):

If that.

Alexander McCaig (01:14):

If that.

Jason Rigby (01:15):

Probably five miles.

Alexander McCaig (01:16):

Probably five.

Jason Rigby (01:17):

That artificial intelligence would probably blow our mind.

Alexander McCaig (01:20):

Yeah. I mean, we got a couple, one or two quantum computers. They're super cool.

Jason Rigby (01:28):

I've seen pictures and they're fucking huge.

Alexander McCaig (01:30):

They're huge, because you got to keep in the rooms. It's cold, and all the blades and stuff like that. But yeah. I mean, they do an analysis. What was the guy? The guy told me once, he said, "Yeah, we got a computer that does one thing. It just runs one calculation all day long." I'm like, "Okay." He's like, "Yeah, but if you put that calculation, if you want to do it on a regular machine, it'd take you 11 years just to do it once." He said, "This thing does it thousands of times a day." And I'm like, what?

Jason Rigby (01:30):

Where is this coming from?

Alexander McCaig (02:00):

What are you processing? What is it you're actually analyzing?

Jason Rigby (02:03):

Well, they're processing high quality data sets of higher information, because they want to train their AI system. Because any government knows, and I would imagine, because Russia's full bore into this, but any government knows that the more high quality data they have on their citizens, or we can call them, this could be-

Alexander McCaig (02:26):

Subjects.

Jason Rigby (02:26):

Subjects.

Alexander McCaig (02:27):

Like it's the British empire.

Jason Rigby (02:30):

The more that they have the ability to make educated control decisions.

Alexander McCaig (02:35):

It's just control.

Jason Rigby (02:36):

Yeah. That's what it boils down to.

Alexander McCaig (02:37):

It just boils down to control.

Jason Rigby (02:39):

So federal agencies, which I don't know how many federal agencies there are in the United States here, probably hundreds.

Alexander McCaig (02:44):

There's got to be so many.

Jason Rigby (02:45):

Federal agencies continue to pursue efforts to increase access to data. Of course. They're going to go full bore. While, this article says, but this is from ai.gov, so this is their own hit piece.

Alexander McCaig (02:58):

Yeah.

Jason Rigby (02:59):

This is their own them talking about-

Alexander McCaig (03:00):

They're just spewing their own news media.

Jason Rigby (03:02):

While maintaining safety, security, civil liberties, privacy.

Alexander McCaig (03:09):

I love it. They've got the Patriot Act they put in place, but we're going to maintain civil liberties and privacy.

Jason Rigby (03:14):

With your data.

Alexander McCaig (03:15):

Oh, yeah.

Jason Rigby (03:15):

And confidentiality protections.

Alexander McCaig (03:17):

Oh, cool.

Jason Rigby (03:20):

I've never had a piece of paper come in the mail from the IRS or anybody that said, "Hey, we had a data breach," or, "Hey, we just wanted to let you know we have this personal information." So this confidentiality protections, I've never experienced that.

Alexander McCaig (03:36):

I've had no sensation of that ever.

Jason Rigby (03:38):

No.

Alexander McCaig (03:39):

Hold on. Yeah. Nothing. Yeah. I just checked.

Jason Rigby (03:42):

But it's amazing to me how they put the words. This is very important. People don't realize, words are very important, one. We know that. But number two, the order of the words.

Alexander McCaig (03:54):

Yeah. Can you-

Jason Rigby (03:54):

While maintaining safety.

Alexander McCaig (03:56):

Yeah. Okay. Safety first. So you know why they did that? Because you can just wave your safety flag and then all rights go out the door.

Jason Rigby (04:03):

Yes. On everything.

Alexander McCaig (04:04):

We're doing this for public safety. We're doing this for national safety.

Jason Rigby (04:06):

Yes. That's what I was saying.

Alexander McCaig (04:08):

Yeah, I know.

Jason Rigby (04:09):

Waiving your rights.

Alexander McCaig (04:10):

We're not that dumb.

Jason Rigby (04:11):

Security is the next one.

Alexander McCaig (04:13):

Oh, see. Well, safety's first because that gives us our security.

Jason Rigby (04:16):

Yes.

Alexander McCaig (04:17):

Oh, but I'm glad you own that land. Here's some eminent domain. We've got to take it back. That's great.

Jason Rigby (04:24):

Yeah. I'm I don't know if you've gone up so far to where-

Alexander McCaig (04:26):

Yellowstone?

Jason Rigby (04:27):

Yellowstone.

Alexander McCaig (04:27):

I knew you were going to say that.

Jason Rigby (04:28):

With the airport.

Alexander McCaig (04:30):

Oh, yeah. Oh we just want to throw an airport in the middle of your land. Well how would you do that? Oh, eminent domain. We just have the government take it back from you. So I never really own anything. That's great.

Jason Rigby (04:39):

Yeah, and that's in Montana. Safety, security. Here we go. Civil liberties.

Alexander McCaig (04:44):

Oh, civil. Okay. So my civil liberties. This is great. They come third. Yes.

Jason Rigby (04:51):

Well, I think it's more than that. Whenever you look at civil liberties and data, so because civil liberty, that would be good to look the definition up, civil Liberty.

Alexander McCaig (05:03):

I'm looking it up right now.

Jason Rigby (05:03):

Whenever I think of civil liberty, I think it's the ability of the people together, and this is what this great experiment the United States is called. It's the ability of the people together to be able to experience in their own way, as long as they're being civil, to be able to have a freedom. And thus we have freedom of speech and we have-

Alexander McCaig (05:23):

You're close, but this is hysterically. I don't even know why they put that in there. I'll tell you why. Fundamental individual rights, such as freedom of speech and religion, especially as protected from excessive government intrusion. So one, security, two, safety. Both of those are government intrusion. Then we'll worry about whether or not we've stepped too far as the government, because we're going to focus on civil liberties.

Jason Rigby (05:49):

Yeah. And civil liberties, that's what I'm saying. Civil liberties to me seems as it's like with data, how are you going against my civil liberties? Why is that supposedly a concern with your AI systems?

Alexander McCaig (06:03):

Because data is people work, right? They put that together. Those are their thoughts. It's the same thing as freedom of speech, your data is, what you choose to do with it, where you choose to put it, how you think and assemble, organize, or worship said data is your right. So that's why the government has to state that, because the data is, frankly, this mirror of who you are as a human being.

Jason Rigby (06:27):

Well, and when I also think of civil liberties, I'm reminded of back in the day, and we had talked about this before, but printing presses, and then people trying to centralize knowledge.

Alexander McCaig (06:42):

All the time.

Jason Rigby (06:43):

So whenever I think of an AI system, what is that AI system going to be doing? It's going to be taking away choice.

Alexander McCaig (06:49):

That's what that one's doing. The government wants only to take away choice. If I can understand the movement of my herds of people, then I can control their flows. That's all they're interested in for safety and security.

Jason Rigby (07:04):

So when we look at AI, so let's say that so a government AI that has a programmed set of morals, maybe, whatever, and then we look at civil liberties. So this is a artificial intelligence. It's an intelligence that's-

Alexander McCaig (07:19):

Taking over the role of the government.

Jason Rigby (07:20):

... taking over the role of government so that they can make better, more informed decisions for themselves.

Alexander McCaig (07:26):

Only for the government's sake.

Jason Rigby (07:27):

It's not for the people.

Alexander McCaig (07:30):

Why would you create a system that gives people more power? What's the famous line in Beaver Vendetta? "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."

Jason Rigby (07:30):

People, yeah.

Alexander McCaig (07:40):

Why do you think the government's creating an AI? Fucking shit scared of people. Why do you think governments try and control and please and beat people and take away their rights? Because they're shit scared of them all the time. They're just hanging around buildings with this facade of power.

Jason Rigby (07:55):

Well, yeah, it's a facade.

Alexander McCaig (07:57):

And think about what the SEC's trying to do with cryptocurrencies. "We've got to lock that shit down." Why? Because the people are gaining power from it. If they can't control it, they lose power. And then people step out of their paradigm of false power that they have. Governments were set up, especially in the United States, for the benefit of people.

Jason Rigby (08:16):

Yes.

Alexander McCaig (08:16):

That's what the Constitution is saying. We're doing this for you. The people decide. But what happened to the power spectrum over time? All the laws, all the changes, all the amendments, boop, back in the government's power.

Jason Rigby (08:27):

Well, I mean, United States, if you talk to our founding forefathers, it's the original Dow.

Alexander McCaig (08:32):

It's the OG Dow.

Jason Rigby (08:33):

Yeah.

Alexander McCaig (08:34):

Yeah. They got it.

Jason Rigby (08:35):

Yeah. They decentralized government. A lot of power was given even back then. A lot of power was given to the states. The federal government was not supposed to be big at all.

Alexander McCaig (08:35):

Yeah. The whole-

Jason Rigby (08:35):

Not even close to what it is.

Alexander McCaig (08:45):

You had all these individual sovereign states, and within those sovereign states, you had people which were sovereign entities. That's why you could carry a gun anywhere you wanted in the United States at that time. You were essentially a sovereign being, a part of these sovereign states. You were doing your own thing. But then we coalesced them together, right? Legislation did over time. And then it became the United States of America, also, known as the United States corporation. You can look up the documents. And then from that, you lost your sovereignty. That was no longer there. You were no longer the king or queen of your land. You didn't determine the rules. People then determined the rules for you.

Jason Rigby (09:25):

For you, right. Yeah.

Alexander McCaig (09:27):

It all inversed itself and then went to hell in a hand basket.

Jason Rigby (09:30):

And that's civil liberties. Second is privacy. I mean, not second, but that's one, two, three, fourth-

Alexander McCaig (09:37):

Fourth.

Jason Rigby (09:37):

... is privacy. So the federal government, especially here in the United States, is concerned about your privacy.

Alexander McCaig (09:45):

Is that the last one?

Jason Rigby (09:46):

No.

Alexander McCaig (09:47):

Oh, so they put privacy second to last. Yeah, because they're always watching. The government came out with satellite. Well, you know they have ground penetrating radar?

Jason Rigby (09:56):

Yes.

Alexander McCaig (09:56):

They put those machines over, see what's underground. They strapped that shit in satellites. They can look right through the walls of your house.

Jason Rigby (10:03):

Oh, yeah. They, there's-

Alexander McCaig (10:04):

That's a stone cold fact.

Jason Rigby (10:07):

The stuff that I saw when I was in the military in the '90s with the technology, this is the '90s. That's fucking 30 years ago. Imagine the shit they have now. I mean, I couldn't even-

Alexander McCaig (10:18):

No.

Jason Rigby (10:18):

I mean, when you're a terrorist and you have a swarm of drones after you, and it's just following you and keeping track, and then it's following those, another swarm of small drones is following the people that you may interact with, and they're just constantly, 24/7 you just have drones flying over you and you don't even realize it.

Alexander McCaig (10:35):

You have no idea.

Jason Rigby (10:36):

There's a lot of-

Alexander McCaig (10:37):

They can look through your house. They can look into the earth's crust. There's no hiding anymore.

Jason Rigby (10:42):

No, no. Privacy is out the window.

Alexander McCaig (10:44):

Yeah. And so-

Jason Rigby (10:45):

We did. We've done episodes on this with the face scanning and then how racist that was.

Alexander McCaig (10:49):

Oh, yeah. We know how against human beings' rights that is. And so that's why when you look using [inaudible 00:10:56] the encryptions we have, our systems are set up so the government can't even touch it. We can't even look at your data. We have to maintain those civil liberties, those human rights, for those people. It's more safe for them to have control over the thing they create rather than the government determining what is safe for them.

Jason Rigby (11:16):

Yeah. And then here's the last one. Are you ready?

Alexander McCaig (11:18):

The government nukes other countries. Why are they determining what's safe for us?

Jason Rigby (11:23):

Yeah. They impose on-

Alexander McCaig (11:24):

Free will.

Jason Rigby (11:25):

We're pretty good about imposing on free will.

Alexander McCaig (11:27):

Yeah, they do it all.

Jason Rigby (11:27):

We learned that from our country that we came from, great imperial-

Alexander McCaig (11:31):

Yeah. Thanks, England. Imperialistic British empire. Look at our sphere of influence all over the globe.

Jason Rigby (11:38):

Yeah. I was watching a whole program the other day about them coming into and creating plantations and stuff in the middle of jungles.

Alexander McCaig (11:47):

All they wanted was slaves, economic trade, and more power. It's probably still one of the more powerful countries in the world.

Jason Rigby (11:52):

Yeah. And then what was the African war? I forgot the name of it.

Alexander McCaig (11:57):

Against the Zulu tribe?

Jason Rigby (11:58):

Yeah, that whole thing that they're playing back and forth. They were bringing like ... It's the Boar wars or something like that.

Alexander McCaig (12:08):

Something that like that. Yeah.

Jason Rigby (12:08):

Yeah. On the ships, they were bringing people that did opera. They were bringing big pianos.

Alexander McCaig (12:14):

Oh, yeah. No. Yeah, all the admirals, they're like, "Wait a minute." Just going to war, these guys would have white gloved tables set up, butlers. And they're just sitting on the edge of the battlefield just watching what's going on.

Jason Rigby (12:27):

Yes.

Alexander McCaig (12:28):

What is happening?

Jason Rigby (12:29):

Because it wasn't anything about leadership or anything like that. It was just like have the men go down there. But all the officers were just high up families.

Alexander McCaig (12:37):

That's all it was.

Jason Rigby (12:37):

So it was the 1%. And you automatically, just because you were of a family became an admiral or became whatever. And it was so interesting. They were talking about all the stuff. They were putting on plays and shows for them.

Alexander McCaig (12:51):

In the middle of the war.

Jason Rigby (12:52):

Yeah, in the middle of a war.

Alexander McCaig (12:53):

Yeah. I don't get it.

Jason Rigby (12:55):

And then so last one is confidentiality protections. Plural. Confidentiality protections.

Alexander McCaig (13:02):

Okay. We won't share it with anyone else. I don't even want you to have it in the first place. You're the United States government. I don't want to say that I'm confident in the United States government. I have zero trust in you. Your confidentiality bullshit is not something that I'm going to be like, "Oh, I feel so much better inside." How many times has the government just said, "Ah, we've got to change this"? It doesn't jive. They do it constantly throughout history. Why would I feel any confidence in some sort of ... I shouldn't have to agree to confidence with you. You should prove it through your actions, but you've given me no reason to have any instilled confidence in what you're doing.

Jason Rigby (13:47):

Well, I mean, you could see that with what's happening now with, and it doesn't take a ... Anything that's, whether it's a pandemic, it doesn't matter. Whatever it is. It could be a war. It could be, like you said, with Patriot Act, September 11, whatever. Any opportunity the government can use force to take more liberty-

Alexander McCaig (14:10):

They'll do it.

Jason Rigby (14:10):

... they're going to every single time.

Alexander McCaig (14:13):

If more of our life is transitioned into the digital, what are they going to do? We know what our next battlefield is. Let's get more control of this. Think about how politics are swung back and forth, and people are polarized through social media. Battlefields are not fought hand to hand combat anymore or what have you, whatever you want to call it. It's literally all fought remotely and online.

Jason Rigby (14:37):

Yeah. And I thought it was interesting, and I don't want to be a little this too much for sake of time.

Alexander McCaig (14:42):

You mean belabor?

Jason Rigby (14:43):

Belabor. Yeah. There we go. Yeah. Be a little bit, too.

Alexander McCaig (14:48):

Yeah. We can [inaudible 00:14:48].

Jason Rigby (14:49):

They have NASA, data.gov, which is really interesting. That's a cool website. NIH supported open data repositories, limited access data repositories, NIST science data portal, patent and trademark data sets. This is what I thought was interesting. You would never think this. The NOAA, big data program.

Alexander McCaig (15:08):

Yeah. NOAA, yeah. They study weather.

Jason Rigby (15:11):

But here's what they do with it.

Alexander McCaig (15:12):

What do they do?

Jason Rigby (15:13):

The NOAA ... This is the government admitting this. Listen to this ... generates tens of terabytes of data per day.

Alexander McCaig (15:22):

Just capturing weather data?

Jason Rigby (15:24):

Tens of terabytes of data per day from satellites, radars, ships, weather models, and of course the government says, and other sources.

Alexander McCaig (15:35):

Yeah. What are the other sources? What's the other stuff? What is NOAA actually analyzing?

Jason Rigby (15:41):

That's what I'm saying. Are they analyzing the ships?

Alexander McCaig (15:44):

Well, no, what happens is you watch-

Jason Rigby (15:48):

I mean, the ships have satellites on them and stuff like that.

Alexander McCaig (15:50):

Yeah. But they watch how ships go back and forth to port so they can see what the flows of merchant goods are.

Jason Rigby (15:56):

Yeah. And so they have this huge commercial cloud platforms of this NOAA data. So it's the NOAA big data. But I was beginning to think about that. Okay. Here's one department of the US government that's generating tens of terabytes of data every single day, 24/7, 365 days. These things don't rest. Tens of terabytes.

Alexander McCaig (16:23):

And the only-

Jason Rigby (16:23):

That's a shitload of data.

Alexander McCaig (16:25):

I know. But the one thing they don't have are people's minds. That's the one thing they want to get control over. And I know that sounds so fucking matrix, but the second they start stepping into the realm of the personal data you create, they have it all. You should not allow them to do that unless you freely and willingly choose to share it with the United States government through the [inaudible 00:16:48] marketplace.

Jason Rigby (16:48):

It would be interesting if we created our own little weather pattern right now.

Alexander McCaig (16:51):

Fucking make a weather pattern?

Jason Rigby (16:52):

You know NOAA satellites would be like, "What's going over there?"

Alexander McCaig (16:54):

Yeah. We should make a machine that's just spewing out some sort of chemical in the air. We're just creating clouds. Nothing to see here.

Jason Rigby (17:02):

They'll be like, "Oh, what's happening over here?"

Alexander McCaig (17:03):

It's an anomaly.

Jason Rigby (17:04):

There's something weird going on.

Alexander McCaig (17:05):

You and I would get black bagged in a second.

Jason Rigby (17:06):

Oh, yeah. Just like ... Zip tied, black bag thrown in the back of a [inaudible 00:17:12].

Alexander McCaig (17:06):

No idea.

Jason Rigby (17:16):

They know. What happened to the TCAST podcast? Our three listeners would be really upset. Our global three listeners.

Alexander McCaig (17:22):

They'd have to go send in a request through whatever that thing is to the government. Can you release this information?

Jason Rigby (17:29):

Yeah. And so speaking of our podcast, our sponsor, [inaudible 00:17:34]. Let's end it with that.

Alexander McCaig (17:36):

Yeah. Turtle.co, a marketplace that respects your security, privacy, civil liberties. And you should have albeit confidence that we are not going to touch your data because we can't even see it.

Jason Rigby (17:47):

And we don't give a fuck about your safety. That's up to you.

Alexander McCaig (17:49):

Yeah. I mean, you've got to be responsible. If you want to be irresponsible-

Jason Rigby (17:53):

If you want to jump off a cliff with those cool wing suits-

Alexander McCaig (17:56):

Oh, those squirrel suits.

Jason Rigby (17:57):

Most of those people die.

Alexander McCaig (17:58):

They don't do very well. They don't fare well.

Jason Rigby (17:59):

No, I think-

Alexander McCaig (18:00):

They banned those.

Jason Rigby (18:00):

They said the guys that are actually fine are the ones that improved the suits. They actually do the sewing and improve the suits. The guys that actually fly. It hasn't gone that commercial yet. And there's been 14 updates on these wing suits, and every single person that's updated them, those 14 that's updated, all are dead.

Alexander McCaig (18:20):

That's crazy. Yeah. Have you seen how they cut through the rocks and stuff? You got me off on a tangent. Point is here, we can't make the choice for you here at TARTLE.

Jason Rigby (18:20):

No.

Alexander McCaig (18:28):

We can offer you a solution, a tool for you to use so you can maintain your civil liberties. You maintain your rights. You maintain confidence in your own actions. Not other people telling you you should be confident in them.

Jason Rigby (18:42):

And if the government wants to have tens of terabytes of data coming into their system every day-

Alexander McCaig (18:48):

They can buy it from people then.

Jason Rigby (18:49):

They can buy it from TARTLE, and then it's the right way. You're maintaining their securities, civil liberties, privacy, and confidentiality protections by buying the data.

Alexander McCaig (18:59):

Show the people which you govern why they should trust you.

Jason Rigby (19:01):

Yes, it's that simple.

Alexander McCaig (19:03):

Or even give us some fake trust. It'd be great. Really appreciate it. See you later.