Tech development is starting to take a closer look at the human aspect of the internet. Web 3.0 is all about stepping away from centralization and caring for the end user and their experience.
This means that in the future, power is placed back in the hands of individuals. We have to relearn how we use and interact with the internet. So, what’s your role in the evolution of technology?
Alexander and Jason have a deep discussion on the trade-offs people have to face in tech development, following research posted by Jamie Burke entitled “Building in the Metaverse.” Moving forward, each element within the metaverse’s system will require developers to make a decision between open/shared or closed/gated and proprietary.
Aspects like the user persona, in-world assets, economics, content, software backend and more can all be tweaked to either be open or closed to some degree.
However, there will always be imperfections, regardless of your system’s design. For example, a DAO would have to have leaders who are meant to represent everyone—but these leaders may eventually try swaying the votes to their favor.
On a C-Suite level, these leaders could also hold private meetings with one another and try gaming the entire system. Essentially, the voting process ends up becoming centralized.
These are issues we have to deal with while we are at the start of innovating new technologies. Giving outside forces an avenue to monopolize these developments lessens the capacity for these technologies to represent the will of the people.
One aspect we are proud of telling our employees at TARTLE is that they are working, not to become the main character of the story, but to be the Sherpas of the people on the ground.
Everybody, regardless of socioeconomic status or location, is fighting their own battles and climbing their own mountains. Our role here isn’t to become the hero of the journey. It’s to help you realize that you are capable of empowering yourself and owning that role.
Some people only ever become NPCs in the game of life. They sign up for TARTLE, open up the opportunity to start their heroic journey, and then never take the next step.
Others choose to walk that journey, take charge of their data, own their power, and get paid for it.
This is your sign to make that choice. What trade-off are you willing to accept?
Sign up for TARTLE through this link here.
Alexander McCaig (00:11):
Clear out the rest of the metaverse here. Yeah.
Jason Rigby (00:14):
Alexander McCaig (00:15):
Jason Rigby (00:17):
That's always simple.
Alexander McCaig (00:18):
Let's talk about that chart here.
Jason Rigby (00:22):
What is this episode, three or four? From the metaverse that we've done?
Alexander McCaig (00:26):
Three or 400. Yeah.
Jason Rigby (00:30):
Alexander McCaig (00:32):
Jason Rigby (00:33):
So, he gets into... He says, "Were you to be using this toolbox but in an entirely new instance with the metaverse, such as a virtual world, are looking to evolve an existing Web 2 platform." So, I want to stop there, because last time we talked about Web 3. One of the big distincts in a philosophical way is, Web 2 didn't give a fuck about who you are.
Alexander McCaig (00:52):
Jason Rigby (00:52):
Web 3 with DAOs and decentralization and stuff, it's actually considering the end user.
Alexander McCaig (00:58):
And it needs that.
Jason Rigby (01:00):
It's bringing people. That's why it gets messy. Web 3 gets messy because when you bring people into shit, shit gets messy. When you make a website, with just Wikipedia, which is information and links, who gives a fuck who looks at that?
Alexander McCaig (01:10):
No one cares.
Jason Rigby (01:11):
Alexander McCaig (01:12):
But when you have people coming in and they're writing Wikipedia-
Jason Rigby (01:15):
Or you have people voting.
Alexander McCaig (01:16):
Right. Now, you have something interesting occurring.
Jason Rigby (01:17):
Alexander McCaig (01:19):
You have the human element now at play. The further you step away from centralization, you put the power back in the hands of individuals. So, individuals actually have to relearn how they're using the internet.
Jason Rigby (01:30):
Yeah, and he says you would be presented with a set of design decisions and trade offs at several levels of your stack between open shared or closed gated and propriety. You might reasonably elect... Okay, people are going to lose me here.
Alexander McCaig (01:44):
Yeah, hold on. No, I mean like, hold on, say it again. You lost me. I was over here kicking a fucking cord because I couldn't figure out what was going on.
Jason Rigby (01:53):
Yeah. Several levels of your stack between open shared are closed, gated and propriety. So, you have to make... These are decisions. These are decisions and trade offs. Something maybe decentralized, something has to be centralized. The theorem is centralized.
Alexander McCaig (02:08):
And, if you go super sovereign, your trade off is, you're going to have to do more work. The system is going to have to be far more flexible, and you have to anticipate things that are very difficult to calculate, which going to be the human action going on.
Jason Rigby (02:22):
Let's say a perfect DAO, super decentralized. And you have 250 people voting. You have to know that those 250 people voting, they're going to pick a leader. There's going to be a couple leaders out of there. Those leaders are going to have private meetings.
Alexander McCaig (02:36):
Yeah, on Reddit.
Jason Rigby (02:37):
On Reddit and Zoom and Slack and all this shit. And then that leader is going to try to influence votes to go his direction.
Alexander McCaig (02:45):
So, he's going to try and centralize, essentially, the voting process.
Jason Rigby (02:48):
Alexander McCaig (02:49):
On something that's decentralized.
Jason Rigby (02:51):
Or, there's cryptocurrencies with DAOs, that is how much you own is the percentage of your vote.
Alexander McCaig (02:56):
Well, that doesn't help.
Jason Rigby (02:57):
So, now you have four big wells from hedge fund managers, and they all agree, and then they can vote. Now they're controlling this cryptocurrency. So, it has becomes super centralized.
Alexander McCaig (03:07):
Fucking scam again.
Jason Rigby (03:10):
So, these are things we have to figure out. We're in the infancy stages of these things.
Alexander McCaig (03:12):
Jason Rigby (03:14):
Yeah, it was interesting because Joe Rogan is like, "I need to get into NFTs," and they're like, "Yeah. Well anything you do is going to fucking bomb." Like, go fucking through the roof, millions of dollars.
Alexander McCaig (03:22):
Which one you going to touch?
Jason Rigby (03:23):
Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Alexander McCaig (03:24):
Because I need to invest in it.
Jason Rigby (03:26):
And so, he was like, "Well, I need to do an NFT", but he goes, "I want to", he goes... He was talking to Beeple, the guy that made like a hundred million dollars in art. This guy, for the last 14 years, has made a piece of artwork every single day, seven days a week, for 14 years. It's on his Instagram. This is amazing. Amazing consistency in-
Alexander McCaig (03:47):
Jason Rigby (03:48):
Doing this. And so, you can see why Louis Vuitton works with him, and all the famous singers, Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber, and everyone works with this dude. And so, he was on there talking to Joe Rogan, and he was saying, and he's like, "Well, you need to make a DAO. And then in that DAO, then people can vote to see what not for profit." Because Joe Rogan, he's like, "I have so much fucking money, I don't really care."
Alexander McCaig (04:13):
Jason Rigby (04:14):
So he is like, "Let's give it all to charity." And then Joe Rogan said, "I can't do that, because I know that people will favor a certain thing, and then if there's hundreds of millions of dollars in this NFT, people are going to make sure that it's going to these certain"... He goes, "What about trolling farms and people in Kazakhstan, and they get on there, and then they're turning around and getting this fake facade, not for profit that they've created and put it on there. And then they have all the votes." So, there's a lot of fucked-upness to this.
Alexander McCaig (04:45):
Well, there's just so many ways. One of the hardest things to deal with is fraud.
Jason Rigby (04:50):
You said hard.
Alexander McCaig (04:51):
Jason Rigby (04:52):
Remember Beavis and Butthead?
Alexander McCaig (04:56):
One of the most difficult things to deal with is fraud. But here's how this works. I'll just give it for an instance of how TARTLE has dealt with it. Every time someone tries to do something fraudulent on the system, you only train us how we can prevent you from doing that in the future, and others.
Jason Rigby (05:13):
Because it's work whether it's... If you want to use the word bad or fraudulent, you're still having to do work. The hacker is working.
Alexander McCaig (05:19):
Yeah. And you've actually helped us make our system stronger.
Jason Rigby (05:22):
Alexander McCaig (05:22):
And refine it. So, actually, thank you for trying to do something negative.
Jason Rigby (05:25):
We want to thank you, and we want to thank Kelly Clarkson for makes us stronger.
Alexander McCaig (05:33):
Nobody is worse at singing than you and me.
Jason Rigby (05:35):
Alexander McCaig (05:35):
Jason Rigby (05:36):
Yeah, we should do a-
Alexander McCaig (05:37):
As you go guard all the coffee.
Jason Rigby (05:38):
We need to do a drunk... Yeah, look at this, this big grenade cup.
Alexander McCaig (05:42):
The hand grenade cup.
Jason Rigby (05:42):
Shout out to politically... We may not be there, but shout out to Black Rifle coffee company.
Alexander McCaig (05:48):
I do like their coffee cup. I do like the-
Jason Rigby (05:49):
It's a badass coffee cup, and funny shirts.
Alexander McCaig (05:51):
Throw me a hand grenade right now for the metaverse. What do we got?
Jason Rigby (05:54):
A way to approach this is to look at the anatomy of any given instance of the metaverse as a platform and its various levels of the stack as we have outlined below. So, we're going to break into... What's anatomy?
Alexander McCaig (06:05):
It's the structure, it's how the human body works. Right? Understanding that. But it's funny that they've taken anatomy, something very physical, and they've moved it into the digital.
Jason Rigby (06:14):
Alexander McCaig (06:14):
But, fundamentally, human beings need to have something to apply the idea to, from what they're used to understanding, and then put it on a new concept. Helps with its adoption curve.
Jason Rigby (06:27):
Yeah, I don't know if... Can you throw this chart up on the screen so people can see this? Do you have it?
Alexander McCaig (06:33):
I got it right here. Throwing it up right now.
Jason Rigby (06:35):
This black one right here, so we can... I want people to see this anatomy of a virtual world. This is really cool. So, the big outline all around, of course, is the platform.
Alexander McCaig (06:43):
Yeah, here we go.
Jason Rigby (06:44):
So, we're going to use TARTLE here, because I think we can describe TARTLE's metaverse here. So, there's the platform. You have the user persona.
Alexander McCaig (06:52):
Yeah. So, everything that an individual is doing defines his persona. And how it's captured digitally will be put into two separate areas.
Jason Rigby (07:03):
Yeah. And then, all of this is bridges to the physical world.
Alexander McCaig (07:07):
What is our bridge? For TARTLE, you share data. The businesses that ingest the data, this NFT data packet. They get to use that to make real world business decisions that impact goods and services. And then for the person, they have the ability to take those funds and either spend it on themselves, real money, fiat money. So I move it out of the digital realm, and put it into something very tangible for myself. I can buy those goods or services, or I can put it towards, like we were talking about, not for profits, NGOs, whatever it might be, charitable organizations, that have a physical, tangible benefit on plants, animals, and anything else. Climate, doesn't matter what it is. So, that's where those bridges occur.
Alexander McCaig (07:49):
But, if we look at this here, this is really interesting. So, if you consider TARTLE, it's an online software. So, you access it with your end user hardware, which would be your cell phone or computer or a tablet, whatever that might be. And on that, it'll have a web browser. A web browser is also a software that allows you to link in to this overall platform that we have. And the TARTLE platform is essentially an individual persona of every single person, because you're coming in to store your data securely. Under your control. So, it takes in all these different things here of your persona. Space. Objects. Tell me about all the things you use, how you use them, avatars, other profiles about you, how you describe yourself in the digital world. Currency. Many different fiat currencies. Financial instruments. Marketplaces. Oh, hello.
Jason Rigby (08:41):
Yeah. Yeah. So, when we... You mentioned the physical virtual. Physical virtual. So, regardless from the physical world or virtual world, it's all going to merge into one anyways. Yeah. But, space. So, when we look at space, you occupy space. I occupy space. How do we occupy that in the metaverse?
Alexander McCaig (08:59):
Jason Rigby (08:59):
In this platform?
Alexander McCaig (09:00):
Jason Rigby (09:00):
Yes. And then like you said, objects.
Alexander McCaig (09:02):
How much bandwidth you take up.
Jason Rigby (09:03):
Yes. So, so you have a space, and you have the objects. The objects would be like NFT data packets-
Alexander McCaig (09:09):
Yeah, how many data packets do you own on TARTLE?
Jason Rigby (09:11):
Right. And then, avatar is you building yourself on this metaverse-
Alexander McCaig (09:16):
So, as a TARTLE user.
Jason Rigby (09:16):
That's representation of you and your expression of creativity. We actually say the avatar-
Alexander McCaig (09:23):
Is a data champion.
Jason Rigby (09:24):
Is a data champion. But even more than that, your avatar is expressed by your work.
Alexander McCaig (09:29):
Correct. You can't just be like, "Oh I'm going to go on-
Jason Rigby (09:35):
I fill out one data packet, I'm a data champion. Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (09:37):
No, that's not how it works.
Jason Rigby (09:38):
Alexander McCaig (09:38):
It takes time. It takes responsibility to do these things. It's your avatar, the value of your avatar, is dependent on the amount of work that you put in.
Jason Rigby (09:46):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes.
Alexander McCaig (09:47):
It's a very important fundamental that needs to go in place. But now we got to look at the economics. Currency, financial instruments, and marketplaces. Well, TARTLE is a marketplace, so it already hits that right out of the gate.
Jason Rigby (09:58):
Alexander McCaig (09:59):
So, can people, with their avatars, occupying space and having these NFT objects, which are data packets, can they put that on a marketplace that is essentially a financial instrument? It's an asset, which can then be bought with a digital currency? Yes. Well, I can't believe how many boxes we check.
Alexander McCaig (10:18):
And now, let's go to the third level of using world assets. Content, media, and data assets. That's what we do. We allow people to bring those things, put them into the system, securely store them. Any type of data asset, any type of media. They can all be in there. Check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check. Okay. Now, world primitives and rules. So, does he have a section describing that in here?
Jason Rigby (10:45):
Yeah, he gets into each of these. World primitives and rules. Yeah, here we go.
Alexander McCaig (10:51):
We got to go over these.
Jason Rigby (10:52):
World primitives and rules. How does the world work? The model for user identity ownership and reputation, the mechanics and physics of the world. Can users fly? Can they run? How fast? Can objects be stacked on top of each other? Can they be attached to buildings? Program-
Alexander McCaig (11:11):
Jason Rigby (11:12):
Yes. And agents. In what ways can elements of the world be automated, and can autonomous digital agents interact with the world?
Alexander McCaig (11:19):
Yeah, sure. I mean, why not? In video games, for instance, you have NPCs, non playing characters, which are interacting with real people that are playing the game. And they abide by a certain set of rules. And your interaction with them is also rule based.
Jason Rigby (11:33):
Yeah. If you sign up for TARTLE and don't fill out a data packet, you're basically a non-player.
Alexander McCaig (11:38):
You're an NPC.
Jason Rigby (11:40):
You're not a data champion.
Alexander McCaig (11:41):
Yeah, you're the opposite.
Jason Rigby (11:44):
Everyone wants to be a part of the hero's journey. You're the hero, and there's a journey to take. And it requires work. So, we have so many people that sign up for TARTLE, and then some of them choose to walk that hero's journey, and take charge of their data, and own their data, and get paid for their data.
Jason Rigby (12:00):
And then others-
Alexander McCaig (12:01):
Jason Rigby (12:02):
Choose to halfway commit, sign up, and then they just don't do anything after that. And it's sad, because it's like, there's an opportunity here for you to take advantage of, to change your world.
Alexander McCaig (12:15):
Jason Rigby (12:16):
Yeah, and others.
Alexander McCaig (12:17):
So like, why wouldn't you do it?
Jason Rigby (12:18):
And you signing up for something, and then not committing to that? That's just another format of revealing who you are as a person.
Alexander McCaig (12:28):
That's [inaudible 00:12:28].
Jason Rigby (12:28):
Because I guarantee you're the one that doesn't go to the gym, you're the one that... And if you don't have a gym, I see these great things on Instagram where people are out running around outside and you're on a rock, you rock climb. I lift weights. Everybody is different in the way, but there's a commitment level to that.
Alexander McCaig (12:43):
Jason Rigby (12:44):
And you have a choice to make every day. Am I going to get up and am I going to do some work? Because rock climbing is work. Physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally.
Alexander McCaig (12:52):
Jason Rigby (12:52):
Am I going to put work in today to be a better person, to be the hero that I know that I am inside. And if you can't accomplish that, I'm sorry. You're you're a non-player.
Alexander McCaig (13:03):
No one is going to do for you. You're an NPC.
Jason Rigby (13:05):
Alexander McCaig (13:06):
But, there are mechanics of our specific system, levers that can be pulled.
Jason Rigby (13:11):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). User identity, ownership, and reputation.
Alexander McCaig (13:13):
Jason Rigby (13:13):
We've got the ownership and reputation down. The user identity, come on.
Alexander McCaig (13:18):
Yeah. I mean, you're coming on identifying as a real human being.
Jason Rigby (13:21):
Alexander McCaig (13:21):
Right? You're putting in certain things, which show that you're a human being, and you claim ownership of your data. And the more work you put in, the more you interact in the system, the better your reputation is. So, you have a higher likelihood of getting more annuities for your data into the future.
Jason Rigby (13:40):
And then, mechanics and physics. This is so interesting, because that's what he's talking about, the running or the flying in the metaverse. When we look at it with TARTLE, what I view mechanics and physics as, is what is your ability, and how much time are you going to put into accomplish what you need to accomplish to learn? Because as TARTLE grows, there's going to mass amounts of opportunities. We just had a long conversation about the educational aspects of TARTLE. Hopefully the platform will grow to the point, and this is your vision and my vision, is that people can learn English on it. People could learn Chinese on it. People could learn whatever. And that people could put... You could be an English teacher in the Philippines and want to teach English. You could put data packets on there-
Alexander McCaig (14:25):
And teach that.
Jason Rigby (14:26):
And teach that, and put videos on there. And other people could buy your courses. Your NFTs. Your things that you've created, your work, that's you working, that you're an expert in this, you've taught English for 5, 10 years, and now you're putting it out there to the world and the world can buy that and learn from you on this marketplace.
Alexander McCaig (14:45):
How cool is that?
Jason Rigby (14:46):
Alexander McCaig (14:46):
And the quality, the amount of work you put in, essentially that curriculum, those quizzes, whatever it might be, would define a higher amount of payment.
Jason Rigby (14:55):
Yeah. And you know I like talking about this. But when we talk about physics, the TARTLE's marketplace is the infinite pendulum. I mean, you look at a fulcrum, it's the leverage that you need to succeed. Because we have a global reach. So, it's the ability... Everyone wants to be on the first page of Google. I mean, in the sense, if we could put today, right now, for a whole 24 hours, that first page of Google, that's really simple, just says Google and search. If we could put a big TARTLE logo and say, "Sign up," how many users would we have today?
Alexander McCaig (15:32):
Just a ridiculous amount of people.
Jason Rigby (15:33):
Alexander McCaig (15:34):
Jason Rigby (15:34):
In 24 hours? We could have at least, bare minimum, 10 million people.
Alexander McCaig (15:39):
At a minimum. Yeah.
Jason Rigby (15:40):
So, whenever you look at that, Google is giving you... That's their real estate. That's their metaverse, that's their space.
Alexander McCaig (15:47):
That's how they define the space, right up here.
Jason Rigby (15:49):
Yes. And so, TARTLE is that same thing. We are that Google that sits there, that lets you have that to take your work and bring it globally.
Alexander McCaig (15:58):
It's all up to you, though.
Jason Rigby (15:59):
If you're a musician, and you think you're a badass rapper, don't put it on SoundCloud. Put it on TARTLE.
Alexander McCaig (16:06):
Yeah, because every time someone goes to acquire it, they're paying you directly for it.
Jason Rigby (16:10):
They're paying you directly.
Alexander McCaig (16:11):
Why the hell are you paying some other service to take a cut?
Jason Rigby (16:15):
Or promoting them?
Alexander McCaig (16:16):
Yeah. You should be the owner of the thing which you created.
Jason Rigby (16:18):
100% ownership. Because when you post something somewhere else, they get to take ownership of it. If that song that you did goes viral, and it's all over TikTok and everywhere else, every 14 year old thinks you have the greatest song in the world, guess what attorneys are going to be knocking on your door?
Alexander McCaig (16:34):
Yeah, exactly. No, exactly.
Jason Rigby (16:36):
They'll be like, "This is ours. We're going to make millions off this, not you." Not on TARTLE. "This is Tower Records." TARTLE marketplace is, you put a hit song, it still goes viral.
Alexander McCaig (16:45):
Good for you.
Jason Rigby (16:45):
And you have millions of people that buy that data packet from you, and you make millions of dollars. We're going to champion you.
Alexander McCaig (16:50):
Jason Rigby (16:50):
You are a fucking data champion.
Alexander McCaig (16:52):
Jason Rigby (16:53):
And you could be in Nigeria, and be-
Alexander McCaig (16:57):
It doesn't matter.
Jason Rigby (16:57):
The best rapper in the world.
Alexander McCaig (16:58):
I bet you there's some really cool music that comes out of Africa.
Jason Rigby (17:01):
Oh, 100% percent, bro. That's where all our music-
Alexander McCaig (17:03):
So much of the human element is missed because we're so bad at sharing, communicating, and actually finding what that value is. And I think when people can come in here, have their user identity ownership, reputation, understand the mechanics of how the marketplace works, and if we put the program ability in place to make it a path of least resistance for them, and just say, "Do the work." And as you do it, we'll refine it to make that work more seamless for you. It's going to be a win for everybody.