The world is full of lines. They are everywhere, they are on the road, on walls, on maps, in the sand, in our minds. Like I said, everywhere. The lines themselves are like a tool, they can be good or bad. Lines on the road keep us from driving off into a ditch or into oncoming traffic. A line on a wall might lead the way to an exit in an emergency. The lines on a map represent the separation between a horrible dictatorship and a free and prosperous country. However, a line can also be totally arbitrary and be based on not on protecting or helping people but on manipulating or separating them.
A while back we talked about how some manufacturing companies would set their production goals by drawing a line on the wall. So along as the product stacked up at least as high as the line at the end of the day everything was good. If not, the bosses were upset and looking for ways to get people to be more efficient, which in the minds of too many means firing people in the hopes of finding someone to work faster. Not to mention scaring people into working faster.
Or back to the example of the map. Look at the lines in the Middle East and Africa. A lot of those countries didn’t exist as defined entities until after WWI and some as recently as WWII. Those lines were drawn arbitrarily as the empires of France, Britain, and the rest of the European powers retreated. Those lines have not exactly been beneficial for humanity.
Let’s spend some more time though with a couple of mental or psychological lines, one is the bottom line and the other is the line between risk and reward. The bottom line of course is a big deal for business. If your bottom line isn’t big enough, you won’t be in business for long. So it’s a valid concern. However, it can become too big of a focus. When it becomes all consuming, your business has gone from the beneficial endeavor it started out as to a monster intent on growing itself regardless of who get in the way.
Our attitude towards the bottom line also has an effect on that risk/reward line. On one hand, a desire to grow the bottom line can drive a person to take a little more risk in the hopes of doing so. An excessive focus on that line has a tendency to make a person overly cautious to avoid any risk if it means a potential loss of money. That leads to absolute stagnation.
The other big thing in that equation that is often neglected is people. Could the risky endeavor help people or not? Could it be a benefit not just to oneself but to others? Could it just be something that leads to a breakthrough in technology, or expanding our knowledge?
Think back to the birth of the digital age in the 1990s. The tech world was bursting at the seams with innovation. New programs, hardware and applications for them were being developed faster than it was possible to keep track of them. Suddenly we could snap photos, get directions, make calls, and keep in contact with friends old and new almost anywhere. Computers and programs to make them useful became affordable for almost everyone who wanted them. How was all that possible?
The venture capitalists back then understood that to get some reward, you needed to take some risk. They put forth some of their money understanding that they might lose it. But they saw the risk as being worth the potential reward. Whether their motive was profit or helping people, they understood that to make progress of any kind you have to be willing to take a risk. Today, everyone is more interested in how money is going to get made than in the idea and its potential. We need to recover some of that spirit, that desire to take risk, to get out in front before anyone else.
TARTLE is doing that, getting out before others and creating a new way of looking at and treating data. With your help, we can remind others that we need to get back to people, back to being willing to take a chance. That’s the only way anything worth doing gets done.
What’s your data worth? Sign up and join the TARTLE Marketplace with this link here.
They are everywhere, they are on the road, on walls, on maps, in the sand, in our minds. Like I said, everywhere. The lines themselves are like a tool, they can be good or bad. Lines on the road keep us from driving off into a ditch or into oncoming traffic.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to TARTLEcast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanity steps into the future and source data defines the path.
Jason Rigby (00:26):
Alex, we're coming in hot and hard.
Alexander McCaig (00:29):
You bet we are.
Jason Rigby (00:29):
Let's dig.
Alexander McCaig (00:30):
Yeah, let's dig. Okay, MacArthur, relax.
Jason Rigby (00:33):
I'm ready. Here we go.
Alexander McCaig (00:35):
Talking about drawing a line in the sand, this is the parallel, right, in Korea.
Jason Rigby (00:41):
Yes.
Alexander McCaig (00:42):
That's it. This is what we're going to do.
Jason Rigby (00:43):
North and South, totally diametrically opposed.
Alexander McCaig (00:46):
And it stops here.
Jason Rigby (00:48):
One is free and capitalistic, the other one is total dictatorship.
Alexander McCaig (00:52):
Yeah, a total mess is what it is. MacArthur, he was up there in Korea, right?
Jason Rigby (00:57):
Yeah, and he wanted to go farther. He wanted to push. I think Patton was all on board with him too to say, "Hey, while we're here, let's just go ahead and take over." The Chinese were they were backing North Korea.
Alexander McCaig (01:10):
They actually backed North Korea and you can see, we've got a map over here, just the geography alone you can start to understand how the mindset of how that flow works.
Jason Rigby (01:16):
I just get mad, I'm mad at the maps because of making Africa so small when I realized how huge it was.
Alexander McCaig (01:23):
Africa is huge.
Jason Rigby (01:24):
Africa should be almost the whole map, clinically. You can take Russia-
Alexander McCaig (01:28):
The scale is wrong on this.
Jason Rigby (01:29):
... China, South America, the United States, and shove it all in Africa. That's how big Africa is, and there's 50 something countries.
Alexander McCaig (01:36):
Yeah, the scale is just totally wrong on that.
Jason Rigby (01:38):
Yeah, look how small Africa is. It shouldn't be that way.
Alexander McCaig (01:41):
What type of colonist put this world map together? This is political too.
Jason Rigby (01:45):
Yeah.
Alexander McCaig (01:45):
See that?
Jason Rigby (01:46):
The world political, yeah.
Alexander McCaig (01:47):
They are so dogmatic, whoever put this map together.
Jason Rigby (01:49):
Yes, it's wrong and we're for you Africa, 110%.
Alexander McCaig (01:52):
110%.
Jason Rigby (01:54):
It's amazing, the diversity in Africa, it's so amazing.
Alexander McCaig (01:56):
Africa is a beautiful place.
Jason Rigby (01:58):
Oh my God.
Alexander McCaig (01:58):
If you've never been, try and go.
Jason Rigby (02:00):
Yeah, I've been to a couple places that are in Africa and it's just the people and the culture and then you've got extreme desert, extreme jungle. You've got the coastlines.
Alexander McCaig (02:11):
You've got the Atlas mountains. You've got some great stuff there.
Jason Rigby (02:12):
You've got everything there, yeah. What I want to talk about is-
Alexander McCaig (02:16):
Drawing lines?
Jason Rigby (02:17):
Drawing lines because you told a story about, a while back, and it got a lot of views on YouTube, so I wanted to kind of bring it in a little bit more. You talked about how the old days production.
Alexander McCaig (02:30):
Yeah.
Jason Rigby (02:31):
And then, how managers would come out and they would just say, "Okay, we need these many pallets," or "We need this much material made, and here's the line and I want it stacked up to that line."
Alexander McCaig (02:41):
Yeah. I used to do a good amount of consulting work in manufacturing outfits. Lean Six Sigma side of stuff, like dealing with efficiency standards. Efficiency, without firing people, I just want to state that, okay, because most people are like just get rid of people. That's not what it was. It's like, well, how do you just make the person naturally more efficient? How do you ease their job and their burdens? Because it just makes the whole plant better, increases the morale too, especially when you're dealing with the union stuff. But, there were some places in terms of manufacturing, where they would legitimately be a line on the wall.
Alexander McCaig (03:20):
So, in the shipping area where the product is actually going out, this material product, the owner of the factory would come in and if the amount of product didn't hit that line, people were being inefficient for today. They're behind. Right? So, he knew that if the product hit this line, I'm making this much money, it's getting shipped out, we're going to do okay. So, as long as this line is hit, I don't care how inefficient all the back processes are going on in the plant, it doesn't matter. We just got to make this line.
Jason Rigby (03:52):
So, what do you think they, without getting too technical, what do you think in more of a macro view where they came up with that line from?
Alexander McCaig (04:01):
Well, the line is strictly, it's a dollar thing for them. They know if the product reaches this line, I can ship and this is the payback, but they didn't realize how much was actually lost on the backend. They think that this is the most efficient process because of what the accounts receivable is telling you, how many POs you're putting out or whatever it might be. But in truth, there's so much lost in the labor and product waste and just time in general, happening on the back end of the factory, to achieve that stupid little mark that was put on the wall.
Jason Rigby (04:36):
What if you had a shitty product but you put that shitty product and you're taking shortcuts to get to the line.
Alexander McCaig (04:41):
Yeah, so your focus is on the line, on the line rather than the people, the product, the quality, all these other things that really go into the making of something that is beautiful. Right? So, even if you're making whatever type of widget or a lock, if the person making it is having a bad day they're going to screw up. But all of that, or even just design in general, people, they're not going to care. So, the one piece of data that you're looking at, this line, is not a true measure of efficiency. And so, when we look at how we've been analyzing data right now, we've been looking at such a small part of the picture.
Alexander McCaig (05:25):
And so, all this information has been done, all the decisions are done on hunches. Oh that feels good. This line feels good. It makes the owner emotionally feel better, but they're only operating on 10% of the information. 90% of the factory is up in flames. Your workers are completely upset. There's hazards all over the place. You're not looking at all of the data that feeds your little line right here.
Jason Rigby (05:48):
And this is something that I want to get into, when you see the tech industry in the 1990s, and you see creativity. I mean, it's unrivaled, the amount of tech that was created in the 1990s. And I mean, just iPhone alone, I think, is probably one of the greatest inventions. The smartphone in general.
Alexander McCaig (06:07):
The smartphone in general, yeah.
Jason Rigby (06:08):
probably one of the greatest inventions that we'll ever experience. I mean, it totally changed everything. And then, you started getting into small computing, which was Apple and Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and all them. And then, being able to have instead of a cash register now you have a computer at every business. And now, they're so affordable everyone has one. So, whenever you look at tech and you see the 1990s and this extreme creativity, and then you look at tech now, there wasn't a line on the wall back then.
Alexander McCaig (06:39):
No, there was such an availability of capital, and there was such a push for the next best technology, that people would fund anything, any sort of creative idea. And when we look at how technology businesses have developed today, it's no longer... it lacks, a good chunk of it, that creativity because when people think creative... Oh, that's costly. They don't understand that it requires a lot of upfront time to get to something truly significant. So, a lot of these businesses are just businesses remaking the same type of business, and it lacks creativity and now the only focus is on ROI rather than pushing the needle forward on helping humanity.
Jason Rigby (07:25):
It's like the iPhone 32, I'm just afraid it's going to have a better camera, a better screen, a different size.
Alexander McCaig (07:33):
There's no creativity in that. The creativity was in thinking about putting a computer in someone's hand. That's a creative thought. But once it's already been done, now you're just improving, you're iterating upon technology that's already been since the early 2000s. And so, when we look at what the line used to be, as opposed to the line now, the creativity has been skirted.
Jason Rigby (07:58):
What do you think the line is now? Is it just shareholder profit?
Alexander McCaig (08:01):
Yeah. From the conversations we had had with investors, it's just like, how do I get paid? What's your first $5,000 in monthly recurring revenue? And if you don't have it, we don't want to talk to you. Even if you have the most creative and beautiful idea in the world, that's truly people first, it's going to do that much good, they don't care about the big picture. There's a large majority of them that don't see it, and a lot of them don't want to take the risk. They have 10% of the data. They have a little view of how they think the world should operate and because they have money, the resources, they think that they're the real decision maker.
Jason Rigby (08:42):
So, why has creativity and risk been stifled? And why does it seem like it's kind of stagnant in those? Because if you take like Uber, reinventing the way that we travel.
Alexander McCaig (08:56):
Yeah, it's car sharing. That's essentially what it is.
Jason Rigby (09:01):
Yeah. And then, you take Adobe reinventing the way we do documents. You take Apple and Microsoft and they reinvented... Even Microsoft with the Xbox and then you had Nintendo and all them and they reinvented this whole personal reality.
Alexander McCaig (09:17):
Yeah, personal entertainment, virtual reality, like all of these things.
Jason Rigby (09:20):
Netflix reinvented the movies. And all of that happened in the 90s and early 2000s. And then, it seems like all we're doing is just building, we've put a line and we're like, okay, we need to get to here. Netflix, you need all these many new sign-ups.
Alexander McCaig (09:35):
That's the thing, it's become so quantitative we left qualitative behind. And qualitative is all the things that make us human. And so, all the development, all the technology has not been for the benefit of people but for the benefit of reinventing technology. Here's technology, let's reinvent the same damn thing. Let's make the wheel rounder.
Jason Rigby (09:56):
Yes. I heard an analogy the other day on a podcast, and it's so great, that everything has become so fear-based. We're seeing it really now with COVID.
Alexander McCaig (10:07):
That's what I said. Nobody wants to take any risk. So, you see it in the healthcare system. You see it with insurance companies, you break your windshield twice they drop you. What's the point of insurance? You're there to protect me, it's not like I'm trying to purposely break my windshield. You see it with the investors, if you even run a business, they want it to be all done and upfront for them and they'll put the money in, and it's almost like zero risk. That's not... it's called venture capital because you're venturing out to high risk places where people haven't done stuff before, but it's a total misnomer now because they're just all investing in the same stuff and purchasing and repurchasing from one another.
Alexander McCaig (10:46):
They're not truly taking a risk. And lucky for us, we found people that believe in pushing the needle forward to help humanity. People that see the larger picture and realize that creativity, that's something that takes time and you have to foster creativity. And creativity is not fostered in a world that has become commoditized. They've commoditized tech industry and startup and all this other thing. That's why you see all these incubators everywhere and what have you.
Jason Rigby (11:15):
Or the angle of the company is to... how can I sell this company? How can I come out in a few years and have made this much money? So, I'm going to go through my burn rate and here's where I'm at.
Alexander McCaig (11:26):
We always knew when someone says, "In five to seven years what's the exit look like?" I knew we were talking to the wrong person, because when you're looking at something that has a mission, purpose, value of the greater good for hundreds of countries across the globe and every single individual that lives within that country, that's not a five to seven year thing. That takes time. That takes people that have vision. And when you're just marking a line on the wall and saying this where the product has to hit, that lacks vision. That lacks foresight and actually the perspective to look at all the other data that's happening behind you about is what's really required to get to that end point. People just want to see the end and just be done with it. They don't want to put in the work.
Jason Rigby (12:08):
What are your leading KPIs? Okay, and then it's like, whether it be an investor or whoever it may be, a CEO, okay here's our line. And so, we're going to do whatever it takes, whatever strategy we have to do, whether it's to make a profit, we're going to lay off 200,000 people or however it may be, we're going to put this line here. And what I wanted to get into with fear, and then we'll close out in this. This was a great example, Kyle Kingsbury, I was listening to him, his podcast, and he talks about this. He goes it's like taking people that used to live in a cave, back in those days. And so, one guy decides to venture out of the cave. Well, he doesn't come back, he gets eaten by a lion. So everybody's like, "Oh my God, you can't go out of the cave. It's so fearful." Where one guy says, "Well, how about we make spears?"
Alexander McCaig (12:55):
So we can defend ourselves.
Jason Rigby (12:56):
And that's humanity, is taking struggle, taking something that is fear-based and heading into the fear and saying how can we outwit that, not physically, but with our minds, how can we do that? How creative can we be with risk to turn around and change humanity for the better?
Alexander McCaig (13:17):
Yeah, and just look at how companies now point at each other and make blame, or say that you have a bad product, you're doing this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It lacks a vocabulary of unification. Somebody may be doing something that isn't the best way to do it, so find a way to work with them rather than make them the enemy.
Jason Rigby (13:39):
That's what we're trying to do at TARTLE. I've had several people say, "Well, you guys are talking against big tech." No, we're not.
Alexander McCaig (13:44):
No, we're not. We're talking about-
Jason Rigby (13:45):
I'm for Google. I'm for Facebook. I'm for all of those.
Alexander McCaig (13:48):
We're talking about helping all of us evolve together. We can make their processes more efficient. We can help bring higher moral and ethical values together. We can deepen the respect for the people that support those systems. Right? And that's what we're looking to do. We're not here to create enemies. We're not here to draw a line in the sand and say this is the parallel, you're bad over here, we're good. It's a function of us working together to bring the qualitative stuff of what it means to be a human being into the very quantitative world that we've evolved faster than ourselves.
Jason Rigby (14:23):
And data is the qualitative aspect of being a human now.
Alexander McCaig (14:28):
It is.
Jason Rigby (14:30):
It's the gold or the oil that was back in the old days. Data is that now.
Alexander McCaig (14:36):
And the future quickly moves into the past in a very fluid form, so if we do not take the data of recording that and going back and reflecting on it, it will be very difficult for us to learn and evolve as a species or even as a business. Right? And that's what we need to look at. That's the value in it, is looking back at those things and learning from what we have recorded. And data allows us not to forget. It just records what is. And instead of just looking at the 10%, which is your future, we've got to look at the other 90% that led us to this point of what our future is. So, we have to evolve as the owner of our factory.
Jason Rigby (15:18):
Have you heard, and now I'll close out on this, have you heard this story in the Bible of Jesus going to-
Alexander McCaig (15:24):
Oh, we're getting religious on this.
Jason Rigby (15:26):
I think it's interesting because he drew a line in the sand.
Alexander McCaig (15:28):
I like parables, go ahead give me a parable.
Jason Rigby (15:29):
Yeah, yeah, it's a parable. He drew a line in the sand and there was a lady that was being accused of some pretty horrendous crimes. And the Pharisees, the religious people at that time, came, and Jesus walked up. And they were going to... back then they would stone people, take big rocks, put them in a pit and-
Alexander McCaig (15:47):
There's still some countries where people do that.
Jason Rigby (15:48):
Yeah, there are still countries. And so he drew a line in the sand and he said, "Those of you without sin, you can step over here and then you can judge." The reason I'm mentioning that story is because I'm looking at these companies, like you said, squabbling back and forth and arguing and doing all these things, and it's like can you step over on that other line? Is your metric, your line on the wall, your line on the sand, is it to help humanity? Is it to take the risk and be creative? And when you can step over on that line then you have the right to say things.
Alexander McCaig (16:23):
Because you're on the side of life and evolution and data will help us evolve. We just need to use it better, and we can do that by respecting people. It's easy to point fingers and build a wall and say that's an enemy, but the question is how do you actually build a bridge and connect to those people?
Jason Rigby (16:43):
And that's what TARTLE does. We're bridge builders.
Alexander McCaig (16:45):
We're bridge builders, we're not wall builders. We saw the failures of the Berlin Wall and said we would have just built a big old bridge and then figured out how to work with one another.
Jason Rigby (16:55):
Yeah. And I think that's where we've come full circle back to the beginning is we're not going to draw any lines on the wall because we want to build that bridge. We want to talk to Facebook. We want to talk to Google.
Alexander McCaig (17:08):
And you know why we want to talk? Because it's exactly what my shirt says.
Jason Rigby (17:11):
Yes, I love that. It's a German...
Alexander McCaig (17:12):
Yeah, it's a German saying. It's ich weiss es nicht and it means I don't know, or I don't know anything. So, because of that lack of knowing we need to communicate with one another. We need to bring the collective of our mind and our data together and focus it on very important things, because we can solve it when we bring the collective power together and we're honest with ourselves and say we don't have all the answers. We only have 10% of the view, now we got to go out and speak with one another and collect that other 90%.
Jason Rigby (17:42):
So TARTLE, if you had an opportunity to, let's say Mark Zuckerberg called you today and he said, "I want to know a little bit more about TARTLE. What is the main things that you do and how can you help Facebook and how can Facebook become a better tech company?"
Alexander McCaig (18:03):
Yeah, no problem. Facebook, I'd be like, Mark, you've created a tool that watches people and then you feed them things that they think they want to see because you've watched them and put together an algorithm that is defining what they should find value in, but you haven't listened properly to what they actually find value in and putting it back towards your thing. The people that support your corporation are the users, the people that have a Facebook profile. It shouldn't be for you to define how they think, walk, talk, and act or should receive information, but rather than them coming back and you listening to them. You're doing all the talking.
Alexander McCaig (18:55):
You need to let them do all the talking and become a better listener. And you can do that by appropriately getting information in a very fair and ethical manner of purchasing it from them to understand the qualitative aspects of the billions of users that you have, beyond the quantitative observational mode that you've taken on. And when you take that other 50%, you create a bridge that you lacked before, and then you can find real balance and you can feel good about the value you're creating and you probably won't get as much of a rap that you have gotten for everything else that's happened at Facebook.
Jason Rigby (19:32):
I don't know why everybody... everybody does memes and stuff like that. I think he's truly a good person.
Alexander McCaig (19:39):
I don't know him.
Jason Rigby (19:40):
I don't know him either, but I mean, and this is my limited perception and maybe we'll get comments otherwise, but to me, he seems like he's... I think his intentions are good, like going in and putting internet in Africa. And I know he's going to make a lot of money from that or whatever, but I mean, when he talks about schools and education, I mean, he probably more than anyone has the ability to influence economies in these different countries, especially third world countries.
Alexander McCaig (20:08):
He has the ability to influence people, and people influence economies. I got to give it to him. He did, whether he stole it or whatever it doesn't really matter, he created Facebook and he currently manages it. Enough said and done, he's created something that is so pervasive all over the globe that has opened up another level of communication and interaction that we didn't have in the first place.
Jason Rigby (20:34):
Yeah, what would we have without? I mean, would the world be better if we didn't have Facebook? I know, I've watched Social Dilemma and I know you have too, but it's like any tool, it's the response... and you believe this and I believe this too, any tool that's out there, it's the responsibility of the individual to use it properly.
Alexander McCaig (20:58):
Yeah. I don't blame Facebook. We were not responsible with how much data we were giving away, or we weren't truly conscious of how this thing was evolving. We weren't paying attention. And when we don't pay attention things can fly right under our noses. I think we pushed, just all of us altogether, pushed it to what it is. When something is so large like that, it is very difficult to maneuver that ship with so much weight, and the collective of people using it, kind of maneuvered it in a certain direction. And there are other influences like money that come in and people say like, "Oh, can we use it this way? I think this might be beneficial." Sure. But people have the power and they always forget that. We just are only now stepping up to the plate and saying, "I really don't like you feeding me up things like this or using my information this way," or whatever it might be. We're only now just starting to find a voice for this technology that we co-created. Zuckerberg didn't do it himself, us using it helped actually refine those systems.
Jason Rigby (22:13):
Yeah, it's so funny. To kind of push back a little bit, I was listening to Joe Rogan the other day and he was talking about YouTube, and I agree with him 100%. For me personally, I actually enjoy the ads I get on YouTube. They do a great job of the ads serve me.
Alexander McCaig (22:29):
They know what they're doing.
Jason Rigby (22:30):
I could easily pay the, what is it, 9.99 a month or whatever and I don't get ads, but sometimes I get really unique companies that are very relevant to what... I want to see a Patagonia. I'll watch the whole thing all the way through.
Alexander McCaig (22:44):
Sometimes I'll watch a five minute Patagonia ad.
Jason Rigby (22:46):
The North Face ad is amazing, like get out, go. I mean, some of the ads are so well done, with things that I believe in, or Nike's ads, and for me it's not a disruption because the ads are... the algorithm serves them so well to me.
Alexander McCaig (23:07):
Yeah, and I think the value in advertisement is changing and it's not just hammer me with a product. It's more purposeful now. And so, you don't mind going through it, because when I see the ad I also want to learn the purpose behind this company. I want to see other people doing good.
Jason Rigby (23:23):
It's like The North Face, it's kind of a controversial view if you really think about it. The whole commercial is showing the ocean, showing the mountains, showing lakes, and it's just like, get out, get outside. You think about it it's like a cool commercial or whatever, but if you really think about it, that's a pretty controversial statement right now.
Alexander McCaig (23:41):
It's shaking you up. It's like you're missing what the world is delivering you.
Jason Rigby (23:46):
There's nothing wrong with you going out on a hike, just social distance, wear a mask, whatever, but there's nothing wrong with that. You need to go outside.
Alexander McCaig (23:54):
Yeah. You need to connect with the thing that makes you you.
Jason Rigby (23:56):
No one expected bike sales to be like they are, bicycles. And so, I just read an article, I think we're going to be talking about it soon, how the city's infrastructure is changing because so many people are on bikes now. I do that. I have a bike. That's all I have. I don't have a car.
Alexander McCaig (24:11):
All you ride is a bike.
Jason Rigby (24:11):
I have a nice bicycle, that's it.
Alexander McCaig (24:13):
That's it.
Jason Rigby (24:13):
And I bought it online.
Alexander McCaig (24:14):
It's great. I tried to get my bike repaired and all the shops are three months behind. It's interesting, especially in this area, in New Mexico, everybody's got to be outdoors, and we do have a nice bike infrastructure. You can get anywhere around here. There's bike lanes literally everywhere. And they have great one-off bike paths, but that's a side point. But if we're drawing that line, the token to learn from this is that we need to pay attention to the other 90% of the data, whether that's the people that support the company or 90% of the processes that lead to the 10% of our profits, we need to focus on that because it's been missed. And there's no reason for us to operate on those hunches anymore. We need to respect the things that truly support our businesses. Right? Our healthcare systems, our political systems, our countries, and that's the people. Right? And the interaction of them and their data and what they create, we need to be co-creative in that process rather than just looking at it from an economic advantage.
Jason Rigby (25:22):
Co-creative, I love that word, Alex.
Alexander McCaig (25:24):
Thanks.
Jason Rigby (25:25):
Thanks.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Thank you for listening to TARTLEcast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanity steps into the future, and the source data defines the path. What's your data worth?
