How TARTLE May, 1 Day, Save Your Life

Alexander McCaig (00:07):

Okay, everybody. Welcome back to TARTLE Cast. Jason doesn't even have his headphones on.

Jason Rigby (00:12):

I'm ready, bro.

Alexander McCaig (00:12):

I know you're ready.

Jason Rigby (00:15):

Because we're talking about some fun-

Alexander McCaig (00:17):

This is fun stuff and this-

Jason Rigby (00:18):

And we're jacked up on coffee.

Alexander McCaig (00:20):

I'm really... This roast here. Wow. Now that just I sat down. I'm like, whoa, I am buzzing.

Jason Rigby (00:31):

That's a super dark roast.

Alexander McCaig (00:32):

Yeah, I'm wigging out right now. What the hell are we talking about? Oh yeah. Engineering, human evolution with genomic data. There's a lot of hub-hub around this people saying, "I don't know if we should be doing this stuff."

Jason Rigby (00:50):

Well, I think Hollywood plays a role in this like they did with aliens, like they've done with a lot of, let's say-

Alexander McCaig (00:58):

You want to talk about aliens?

Jason Rigby (00:59):

... controversial issues, but no, no, no. Well we are aliens, but we won't get that. But whenever we look at specifically Hollywood playing this out where there's these mutations and then this can go wrong and next thing you know, you've got this weird looking thing that's cracking itself and crawling, a weird baby.

Alexander McCaig (01:20):

I like that thing that just fell.

Jason Rigby (01:24):

We're knocking planes off the bookcase. But I mean, I'm just saying, so this creates a fear.

Alexander McCaig (01:34):

Obviously technology, as we'll learn, things can go wrong, but we don't have to make it disproportionately negative when it can be something that is so beneficial.

Jason Rigby (01:47):

But we have to understand, especially when it comes to medical research and medical technology, it's changing faster than ever.

Alexander McCaig (01:54):

Faster than ever.

Jason Rigby (01:54):

Faster than our brains can even comprehend.

Alexander McCaig (01:59):

Here's the point, there are over 3 billion characters of Gattaca in the human genome. Your DNA has a bunch of these specific letters like protein sequences that define who you are. This is the roadmap to Jason. This is the roadmap to Alexander. That if I go really far back in that DNA, we all share a common starting ground. But we all take our roads going forward. Those things, they deviate, we go in certain directions.

Alexander McCaig (02:32):

Now, some things may be written into that roadmap, right? If it's already headed west, it may continue to head west, and from that, oh my gosh, I hit a certain stop sign. Oh, cancer is here. Oh, interesting. Should have taken that other road back there. Right? But the thing is, it's baked into us. It's very hard for us to alter those things. Genes can mutate, but how is it that we get them to mutate for a positive benefit rather than get them to mutate negatively? Right? How do we use machines to splice these proteins and then, alter these 3 billion characters that we can refine who we are as human beings? We can actually accelerate our learning, the quality of our life, we can remove the things that debilitate us, but we got to down to the source code.

Jason Rigby (03:20):

And they call it targeted treatment. I mean, whether it's precision medicine with genetic coding, and that's been around since the 70s when they first began to, and I think in the early 80s, wasn't it when, I don't remember... Or the early 90s when Clinton came out with the head guy for... And they came out in the that they had figured out DNA and sequencing it. But whenever we have these targeted treatments and we have this precision medicine, we can see that we have disease genes. And you talked about it.

Jason Rigby (03:55):

So whenever we have a targeted mutation, we're in the process of understanding, we can understand what's happening, like prostate cancer for instance, we're two males. So prostate cancer is a 50% chance. If there's two men here, there's a 50% chance-

Alexander McCaig (04:14):

Oh my gosh.

Jason Rigby (04:14):

... that we're going to get prostate cancer.

Alexander McCaig (04:16):

Oh, you and I are a mess. And usually most everybody, as you get 70, 75, you get prostate cancer. It's whether it metastasize or not and it can go into different parts of your body, but it could stay. But most men that die in their 80s, 75, 80, 85, 90, they die not because of prostate cancer, but they die with prostate cancer. And there's like three or four different type of mutations and you can get your prostate taken out and there's all kinds of stuff with that. As women with breast cancer, I think it's a mastectomy, not a vasectomy, a... What do you call it?

Jason Rigby (04:53):

Oh my gosh. Why'd you say it like that? Mastectomy.

Alexander McCaig (04:59):

There we go. We're not doctors, we don't claim to be doctors.

Jason Rigby (05:03):

I am absolutely not a doctor.

Alexander McCaig (05:05):

Anything that we say right now...

Jason Rigby (05:07):

I am not a doctor.

Alexander McCaig (05:09):

I'm just saying-

Jason Rigby (05:09):

What's point?

Alexander McCaig (05:10):

Whenever we look at this, they're using one thing and one thing only, data.

Jason Rigby (05:17):

Correct.

Alexander McCaig (05:18):

Now, our bodies our data.

Jason Rigby (05:22):

Here's how I see this occurring, say in the beginning we have this great algorithm, so cool, our servers are just crushing it with the algo. But what we find is that as time passes, the algorithm, as it gets out into the fringes, becomes weak. Oh my gosh, why is it doing that? Is there a bug in the system? We need to go back in and refine that algorithm. If I have 3 billion data points essentially for one human being, at the fringes, as time goes forward, age, we should probably look at what's going on here. The algorithms going a little nuts. There are some cancers developing. There are some debilitating diseases that are occurring because the genetics at the fringe, there's an issue.

Alexander McCaig (06:14):

Well, I think also with modern medicine, we get to the possibilities of understanding, even now, and I'm not putting doctors down, I'm not putting anybody down in medicine, but a lot of stuff is dark age and a lot of it is hocus focus.

Jason Rigby (06:32):

You bet it is.

Alexander McCaig (06:33):

A lot of it is guessing. You're using your brain and the knowledge that you have over a period of time to make a decision based off of a person instead of allowing data to give us the answer. And that's what's going to happen eventually. We're going to have data points and then a doctor be able to look at the data and then turn around and give you a symptom because the focus has to be, and this is why I like gene therapy and all of this, because that focus is healing.

Jason Rigby (07:06):

Correct.

Alexander McCaig (07:07):

And that's the focus, not treating, healing. Big difference.

Jason Rigby (07:10):

It's healing and prevention. Here's how I see this going down in the future. First of all, it's pretty ass backwards that you're going to pay 100 bucks to swab your mouth, send it off to a company. So you're paying them so that they can also rob you in more funds that they get from using your information to sell it off to others. First of all, there's a financial problem there that's wrong. 23andMe, yes, I'm to you.

Jason Rigby (07:41):

Second aspect of this is we should be using systems like TARTLE and yeah, we're going to talk about it to have everybody come together with their genomic data, everyone, and we should have the ability to share it to as many parties as possible, not have 23andMe dictate who it goes to, so that everyone can come together in collective research to build essentially out this massive, what I would say, aggregated human genome, a huge one that we can pump into algorithms and test against all day long.

Alexander McCaig (08:15):

Well, and it's so funny because TARTLE solves the 23andMe and FDA problem. Because then it's it not going, it's a person's free will. You're paying people for that data, it's very, very clear, so that health test that you want to give out, that prevention health test and that survey that you want to give to me, why would you not pay me for that?

Jason Rigby (08:36):

I'm doing work for you.

Alexander McCaig (08:38):

Yes. That you're going to turn around and sell.

Jason Rigby (08:40):

Yes, so you should give people a cut of that. You shouldn't just have the world doing labor for you.

Alexander McCaig (08:45):

For free.

Jason Rigby (08:47):

That's ethically ass backwards.

Alexander McCaig (08:50):

Yes, so that's where TARTLE solves that problem.

Jason Rigby (08:54):

In that aspect, right? Of the total ethics cockup that has happened at 23andMe when we have these massive amounts of data, right? So we're collecting all these data points, this uniqueness of all these humans coming together, we should then be looking at it and just living like, let's poke it with some new proteins. Let's change a little bit of this. Let's see what the outcome looks like in this data set. Especially at the fringes when we've done some alterations.

Alexander McCaig (09:20):

The molecular nature of what is going on.

Jason Rigby (09:22):

Correct. Let's say how these proteins are interacting at that level and we should have computers running that all day long. We should try and look at, "Okay. Where does the disease kick in? What's triggering that genetically? What sequence of the Gattaca, what point within 3 billion data points is it saying cancer at this age?"

Alexander McCaig (09:41):

Well, it also comes into, I mean, there was a gentleman that passed away because of some research that was going on and you sign tons of forms on that in the sense of saying, "You know this is experimental drugs."

Alexander McCaig (09:54):

But the carrier, it's easy to get, it's easy to solve the mutation, it's hard to get it to the proper gene. And so they have to use a carrier like a virus, they use a virus to put it in there and then they can specifically have it and tell it what to do and to act in a certain way. But the virus was the wrong virus, and so it incurred and caused a death. And that's horrific to the families and everyone involved, but as we begin to understand that and learn from those mistakes, even though it was a huge mistake that set years and years back on genetic mutation medicine. But as we begin to look at this and we have something that just came out a few years back called CRISPR, and this is controversial, but this gives us an idea of being able to go in and do splicing, which is a lot different than having a virus carry something and then hoping it works.

Jason Rigby (10:52):

Correct. It's not like we want to use some separate vehicle to try and get into our needs-to-go. Let's just deal with the thing that needs the getting. What do I mean about that? So for CRISPR and you talk about genetics, these things want to bond together. CRISPR at a very small level is doing a little bit of cutting and separating, but then the proteins want to come back and stick, if I understand this properly and I could be screwing this up, but they'll come and stick together. "Oh, wait a minute. That was an interesting bond." They want to bond. There's an attraction to these things.

Jason Rigby (11:26):

The way we change these bonds, the sequence of how they're bonding will essentially change the programming far into the future. Small changes here have larger, drastic changes in the future. We need to make those small changes, run them through these very advanced algorithms, use a lot of computing power and use the collective of everyone coming together to share their data for that research.

Alexander McCaig (11:51):

Well, I mean, we know with evolution, DNA breaks can cause other mutations for generations.

Jason Rigby (11:55):

For generations.

Alexander McCaig (11:56):

So that's something we have to look at, too. It's like, this may not just be in your lifetime, this could be your great, great, great, great-grandkids.

Jason Rigby (12:03):

So, oh my gosh, we screwed them up. You know what I mean? So we have to be sure that when we do this, let's test it outside of actively getting it in the system, which means be before people start having intercourse and breeding and then the code starts mixing up, we got to make sure that we refine it outside of that.

Jason Rigby (12:21):

Here's how I see this occurring. You ready? In vitro fertilization, let's take the eggs and take the sperm, bring it on the outside, fertilize it in a dish and then actively as the fertilization is occurring in the mitosis, the splitting and all those other things occurring within the cell, let's look at the genetic code. You'll already be able to know when those two things bond, the sperm and the egg, how this is going to play out. You're going to know immediately the code's already being developed. It's there. There's so much information just within that one cell. So we should be testing. And then we could test many eggs that have been fertilized and choose the best possible one through the analysis, that's going to do the least amount of harm or the highest likelihood that child will come out essentially more perfect. It won't have the disease that would come out there or some sort of debilitating thing that could occur within its own health.

Alexander McCaig (13:18):

Well, I think this is really interesting. Here's a perfect example, serial killers. You're like, "How do we go from CRISPR to serial killers?"

Jason Rigby (13:24):

What are you talking about?

Alexander McCaig (13:25):

This is really cool, though. They're finding out through data, that serial killers, a lot of them, this is external aspect, have a very cruel mother. Especially men that are looking at women, degrading women and then, eventually taking their free will and killing them. But they've also found out that there have been concussions and brain damage, through looking, doing brain imaging and stuff like that, they found out where that part in your brain where there's compassion and stuff like that, usually there was like a hit on the head, a lot of trauma, an accident that happened, so they're finding that that area in the brain with a lot of the different serial killers now that they're getting collecting more and more data, you add that combo, those two things and now you have the serial killer.

Jason Rigby (14:13):

That's crazy.

Alexander McCaig (14:14):

But I mean, we wouldn't know that... The whole basis of catching serial killers, there were so many serial killers running around before the 1980s. I was watching an old program the other day, it was a news thing from the early 90s. They were guessing, the FBI was at that time, they said, "There's probably 500 serial killers running around. We just can't put the pieces together. So we have a hard time", because this Sheriff's department with this murder has the data and it's only there. The FBI has some data it's here. This police department in Detroit, this guy went around and killed a hundred women and he just drove around on the freeway and just was killing women randomly.

Jason Rigby (14:56):

But the point it these things are siloed. We all need to come together and share our data points. And in doing so, we can catch things sooner.

Alexander McCaig (15:07):

TARTLE can solve serial killers.

Jason Rigby (15:10):

But listen. Well, definitely we could. If we all shared the data, we could be on top of stuff. The point is, we don't need to have cancer. What we should do is, at the end, how I see this, is we should be living out the maximum of what our genetic code says. If our genetic code says 120 many years, that's it and then the heart stops. That would be great. No disease, nothing occurring, no super illnesses. Right? No... What the heck is that?

Alexander McCaig (15:41):

You know what? This is so crazy.

Jason Rigby (15:43):

Go ahead.

Alexander McCaig (15:43):

Do you know what the number one... I mean, you have heart disease and stuff like that, but the main number one reason people after 75 die?

Jason Rigby (15:51):

No why?

Alexander McCaig (15:51):

Falling.

Jason Rigby (15:52):

Oh yeah, they bust the hip. They die in the hospital. It's secondary [crosstalk 00:15:56].

Alexander McCaig (15:55):

You know what is the leading thing that causes... This is cool with data, this is why I love data so much and this is why we do what we do at TARTLE, they were saying that the number one thing with preventing falling-

Jason Rigby (16:08):

Lack of leg strength?

Alexander McCaig (16:09):

Grip strength.

Jason Rigby (16:10):

Oh, grip strength. To hold a bar or something.

Alexander McCaig (16:13):

Yes. Or be able to put your hand down.

Jason Rigby (16:16):

What was I looking at? Mortality rates. If you want to live longer, it's leg strength, VO2 max, grip strength-

Alexander McCaig (16:24):

Yes, VO two max is really important.

Jason Rigby (16:26):

... and, I forget what the other one was.

Alexander McCaig (16:27):

VO2 max, if you go out and walk in your 70s and you can go for a walk, you're going to live five times longer. If you lift weights and create bone density and stuff like that with walking and creating bone... Those things that you mentioned, it makes it 10 times longer.

Jason Rigby (16:42):

That's great.

Alexander McCaig (16:44):

10x just by... You don't have to take a pill, you don't have to do anything, you don't have to change your diet. None of those things, and hanging on a bar, just hanging on a bar. So wonderful for you, with your grip stretching, stretching-

Jason Rigby (16:54):

I hang on log walls.

Alexander McCaig (16:56):

I mean, your grip strength is probably incredible, but-

Jason Rigby (16:58):

It's pretty good.

Alexander McCaig (16:59):

... but I mean, it's these little data points that we begin to find out and see and say, "Oh, okay." And the next episode, because I know we've got in this, but next episode, I want to get more into $600 billion these companies made off of selling your data that you paid, you paid $99, $149, $69, whatever it is, you paid them, you swab your mouth and it's not just 23andMe, there's a lot of these. You pay them and then they turn around and take your data and made six... I want you to think of those numbers. What could you do with $600 billion?

Jason Rigby (17:35):

Oh my gosh.

Alexander McCaig (17:36):

Well, we could solve lots of problems.

Jason Rigby (17:37):

We could solve a lot of problems.

Alexander McCaig (17:39):

With $600 billion.

Jason Rigby (17:40):

Every time you swab your mouth and you pay them 99 bucks, that should be buying you a share in their profits, but they don't look at it like that.

Alexander McCaig (17:48):

Or 23andMe could use TARTLE and say, "Hey, climate stability, fill out the survey, you can donate to climate stability, it doesn't have to be paying...

Jason Rigby (17:58):

Don't pay 23andMe.

Alexander McCaig (17:59):

Yes.

Jason Rigby (18:00):

Forget that. Gosh. Why is everything so backwards?

Alexander McCaig (18:04):

It's ethics. We put profits before people.

Jason Rigby (18:08):

They're frankly not ethical. Before we close this out, for so long people have been against genetically-modifying foods. The idea was we need to genetically modify the food. We got to go into the data of the apple and we have to make it so it's more resistant to bugs, shit like that. And what we found is that had negative effects on our gut biome. So people are like, "We got to stop genetically modifying stuff." Well, hold on a second. If we can do that, why don't we genetically modify to be more nutrient dense? Don't use pesticides when you're doing your farming, if a bug eats it, whatever. But if you've genetically engineer this apple to actually give you that much more, well, who cares if half the crop dies? One apple is worth a thousand. I feel like there's been this theme, this narrative against these things that are really beneficial for us. The way I see it is that we should bring back genetic modification of food in full force.

Alexander McCaig (19:27):

Well, it's no different than us and CRISPR.

Jason Rigby (19:29):

That's my point. Not for economic reasons. We should do it for reasons of human evolution and human good. That's what we should be doing.

Alexander McCaig (19:38):

Well, we're going to get to the point where we're going to have to, for the sake of humanity, we're going to have to have genetically super nutrient dense, modified meat, but we're going to have modified food. Like you said, we're going to be 3D-printing stuff.

Jason Rigby (19:51):

All the time.

Alexander McCaig (19:52):

I mean, it's going to be and then you be able to get a steak that's been 3D-printed and it's going to be the highest protein and the best for you-

Jason Rigby (19:59):

And it's not going to have any heme iron or nothing of the really toxic animal fats that are in there. It's only going to be stuff that's good for you. It won't do harm to the environment.

Jason Rigby (20:09):

Genetic engineering, going to the source code, working together collaboratively will be one of the most beneficial things technologically human beings can do. Outside of creating new fusion technologies for reactors outside, all that stuff, affording ourselves the ability to look deep, deep into our history and retune or change the path of where that genetic code is going so that we have the ability to live longer, learn more and create deeper amounts of human understanding. That's where we need to go.

Speaker 6 (20:50):

Thank you for listening to TARTLE Cast with your hosts, Alexander McCaig and Jason Rigby, where humanity steps into the future and source data defines the path. What's your data worth?