TARTLE may be based in the United States but our scope is global. Our goal is to improve data privacy and management for people everywhere. We’ve already made great progress towards that goal as our community is already worldwide. That is because we recognize the importance of the individual in data generation and sharing, and the need to keep each person’s data fully under their own control. Still, TARTLE also recognizes that our community can spread faster and our goals better be achieved if we work with businesses and governments around the world. Which is why we were recently meeting with representatives from the European Union. Right now, they are trying to find ways to improve the flow of data from the individual on up so they can use that data to help guide and implement policy and be of greater use to companies in their product creation. One of the major obstacles they have experienced is that they don’t currently have anything to help integrate all the necessary programs in order to manage and analyze that data. They also are struggling to find ways to incentivize private industry to participate in data sharing.

What many often miss is that you need an economic incentive to share data. This is as true of corporations as much as individuals. Without any kind of revenue stream that will come from sharing data, it’s actually in a company’s best interest to hoard the data and use it for their own purposes. The EU people of course recognize the need to educate people on the importance and benefits of data sharing but took some convincing on the necessity of the economic incentive. Once it was pointed out that as good as education is, without the incentive, few people will participate, and all of their lofty policy goals will only ever be words on paper. People also need to keep in mind that no one, not business, not government gets data without the interactions of individuals.

Up until now, data has been gained covertly through a variety of interactions without the individual’s knowledge. TARTLE, of course, is trying to change that, to increase individual control of data while also providing an incentive to share it. As it turns out, there is a perception amongst the governments of the EU that the incentive of monetizing data would lead to minimal adoption of TARTLE. That people would resist that idea. Fortunately, this idea was quickly debunked as TARTLE’s data shows that adoption of TARTLE is already greater in the European Union than in the United States. If anything, EU citizens find data monetization to be exactly the right incentive. That also means that we are already in a position to demonstrate how useful we can be when it comes to helping develop policy. One of the difficulties for any government, especially one that covers as much territory and different cultures as the EU, is no matter how good the data is that they are using to create policy there is always some bit of guesswork involved. There will always be holes in the data, or it can misinterpreted, or there will simply be factors that were never taken into account.

TARTLE can help mitigate this in a couple of ways. First, by going directly to the individual, individuals who are already volunteering to share their data, the initial data set can be improved. The data itself can be trusted more because given that all the participants are willing they are less likely to lie as might be the case with people who are annoyed when a pollster calls or a survey arrives in the mail. There are of course follow up and specifically directed questions that can be asked of the same participants. Even better though is the second major way that TARTLE can help with improving the way the EU develops policy. That would be the fact that TARTLE can connect the government with willing participants who can provide feedback on the policy in real time. The government can talk to citizens as they are affected by the policy and more quickly determine whether or not it is working as designed as well as gauge any unintended consequences which so often develop in such situations. In this way, the EU government could more quickly and efficiently tweak, abandon, or further implement a given policy as the data suggests. That’s what TARTLE is doing, connecting individuals with others so that better products and policies can be developed, all while returning control of data to the individual.

What’s your data worth?



For those who are hard of hearing – the episode transcript can be read below:

Alexander McCaig (00:26):

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to another week’s episode of TARTLE Cast. I want to do a shout out to a whoop.

Jason Rigby (00:32):

Whoop, there it is.

Alexander McCaig (00:33):

Yeah. Whoop. Yeah. Both of you and I are wearing this IoT biometric device, and I want to say that in terms of their customer service, they were very transparent about how their data is used, how it’s analyzed, where it goes, where it sits, everything. And I told them, “I’m not making any decision to join your thing until you tell me exactly what’s going on with this.” And they were very upfront and open about it, and right after that, fine, you got me. I subscribed right that second.

Jason Rigby (01:03):

Well, I mean, cause they’re getting data 24/7.

Alexander McCaig (01:05):

Yeah. And they get more data than even what the Apple watch puts out.

Jason Rigby (01:08):

or Fitbit or any of those.

Alexander McCaig (01:09):

Yeah. It’s just, it’s pulling down so much data all the time. It was actually, I was frankly, quite impressed.

Jason Rigby (01:16):

At what I like that. I mean, for you, it even has the climbing feature on it.

Alexander McCaig (01:21):

I used the climbing feature yesterday and I can actually see over the course of the entire workout, the high points of stress.

Jason Rigby (01:27):

Yes, Yeah.

Alexander McCaig (01:28):

And depending on, it’s funny depending on the route I’m going up. It’ll actually, you’ll see. My heart rate variability is like much higher, that was very cool.

Jason Rigby (01:36):

Yeah. I did a hiit workout yesterday cause they have the hiit workout on there. So I clicked on the hit that. No pun intended. Yeah. And it was interesting because I thought I was like gas, like done but it was keeping, but my heart rate, I thought I was at maybe 150, one 160 because I was having a hard time breathing, but I was staying around like the 130 range. So it was like, okay, I need to work on doing more breathing exercises because it was a lack of auction more than it was. I thought I was at my max.

Alexander McCaig (02:13):

You’re just not breathing.

Jason Rigby (02:14):

Yeah. I’m just not breathing. Yeah. So, so last night I did the Wim Hof downloaded the Wim Hof app. You know that guy. Yeah. And I did that and almost passed out, but it was fine. Then I had to go take a cold shower. Cause he’s about that.

Alexander McCaig (02:30):

I’m so uncomfortable by the way. That’s the hardest thing.

Jason Rigby (02:32):

But what I, what I liked about whoop, more importantly in this is going to be a whoop episode before we do EU. We’ll just do a quick whoop episode for SEO purposes on TARTLE Hill.

Alexander McCaig (02:44):

Thanks, whoop.

Jason Rigby (02:46):

Yeah. What I liked about them is their podcast too. So they have they’ll have different engineers or vice-presidents or whatever that will come on there and then talk about updates. Like they had a whole thing on COVID.

Alexander McCaig (02:58):

They got the same vibe we’re doing. And I think I really appreciate what they’re doing.

Jason Rigby (03:02):

I Listen to the whole thing on COVID and they were asking permission, like you don’t have to say yes or no, but they were trying to collect enough data to be able to see with whoop obviously people that are attracted to whoop live a very active lifestyle. So it’s interesting to grab that dataset.

Alexander McCaig (03:20):

Sure.

Jason Rigby (03:21):

A lot of people, especially your age don’t even know they have it or they’ve barely gotten it. Especially people that are, that we know it’s all about the breathing.

Alexander McCaig (03:29):

I have an elevated respiratory rate.

Jason Rigby (03:29):

Which when Hoff’s said And he goes last night, he was talking about it. Not to me personally, but on a podcast, he goes, isn’t that funny? We were putting a mask on when everything should be about breathing. And we are staying in home when we should be outside in nature.

Alexander McCaig (03:42):

How about all the cases going up and the people that got it we’re still wearing it.

Jason Rigby (03:45):

Yeah. Yes, exactly. So, but I mean, isn’t it just funny how the opposite and then there’s no view on taking power or healing yourself.

Alexander McCaig (03:53):

Reminds me of like cancer treatment. why don’t we just take another carcinogenic? My cells are growing at an accelerated rate that they’re mutating and there’s a lack of oxygen going in there it’s high acid levels, everything like that. Let’s just hit it with something else.

Jason Rigby (04:10):

That’s really hardcore. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Alexander McCaig (04:13):

Two poisons in each other .

Jason Rigby (04:15):

And let’s just topple fast food. Put that in your cellular level.

Alexander McCaig (04:19):

Or stay inside the hospital or go outside. Don’t go in nature.

Jason Rigby (04:22):

Stay in your home don’t go out. Yeah. Don’t get any vitamin D no zinc or magnesium or vitamin C none of that stuff.

Alexander McCaig (04:29):

Actually. That’s why, I mean drinking the San Pellegrino. it’s like a liquid vitamin.

Jason Rigby (04:33):

Yeah. there’s a lot of minerals in there.

Alexander McCaig (04:36):

Total Dissolved solids in, this is like actually quite high.

Jason Rigby (04:37):

Yeah. And that’s what we’ll talk about on the next episode where they’re from.

Alexander McCaig (04:43):

So what did you want to get into the EU? So you said you were just going to take me off on this.

Jason Rigby (04:47):

No, what really what I want you don’t understand is where your Pellegrino water actually comes from.

Alexander McCaig (04:53):

Tell me where it comes from.

Jason Rigby (04:54):

No, this will be interesting.

Alexander McCaig (04:56):

It says bottled at the source San Pellegrino term. Bergamo Italy.

Jason Rigby (05:01):

Yes. So let’s talk about Italy.

Alexander McCaig (05:03):

Italy is an interesting place.

Jason Rigby (05:05):

And so when we look at the European union in its own self.

Alexander McCaig (05:12):

It’s 20. So just a little bit of background case, you don’t know, the European union is 27 member nations. It is about 443 million people in total. The populace that consists of, and they had do about $30 trillion in total GDP.

Jason Rigby (05:29):

So as, as countries are going in and out of the EU and we’re having situations right now, and I know, especially with, I don’t know what the call it Great Britain is that what they call themselves now, but yeah, you have Brexit going on. And then I know Greece has had a lot of turmoil with coming into the EU and we look at Romania having Germany’s end up flipping the bill for quite a bit of it.

Alexander McCaig (05:52):

It’s a lot going on, it’s so many different cultures and seven different people, they work their own ways. And then like, well, why don’t you come in here and work like the union works. That’s not how we work. And so they want to be a part of it for the benefits, but kind of like changing their culture to assimilate to what’s required.

Jason Rigby (06:10):

But how many did you say 20?

Alexander McCaig (06:12):

27 member nations.

Jason Rigby (06:13):

27 small countries appeared to having one voice. And I think that’s what the European union is looking at. And we’re going to talk about that with data here in a second, but the European union in and of itself being when it can make pole laws and policies and be able to reach out to the India, the China, the United States, it can come together as one union. And then that voice becomes a lot louder than let’s say Italy or Germany.

Alexander McCaig (06:38):

Who may not have the pole, but as a collective, as a decentralized collective, it allows them to have that strength. So for a little bit of background today, TARTLE had a conversation with the European union and their policy leads for what they plan to do with data over there. Okay. So they have a group that had this, like the head of data group. And what they’re trying to do is they’re trying to open up the analysis of data, the flow of data from government to business, business to business and consumer and up so that people can better analyze it. And then they can then apply that to functions of their industry, things that are going in with green manufacturing, mobility, healthcare, things of that nature. But the problem is getting all these different systems together to kind of like join up and speak and share in some sort of feasible format.

Alexander McCaig (07:31):

They don’t have anything to do that yet. And it’s also very difficult with they’re trying to find in their policy is like, how are we going to incentivize businesses, private businesses to share information they otherwise wouldn’t share.

Alexander McCaig (07:44):

Well if you’re an avid tartar listener, you would understand that this is quite obvious. And it’s an easy answer once you start to talk about it. So when having the conversation, it’s like, look, economic incentives have to be in place. Once you do the main factor, which is they’re like, we want to educate our citizens and our businesses on the value of data and controlling it. Okay. And knowing how and when to share it, that’s kind of their gig. Right. And I told them, I was like, it’s all well and good to write a policy, but a policy without effective tool. It’s just words on paper.

Jason Rigby (08:21):

Well, I think you’re right. But those two things to educate and incentivize in that order.

Alexander McCaig (08:26):

Yeah. And so they’re like, Oh, we just want to educate. I was like, well, just putting out a policy saying that we’re going to have some sort of educational base it’s just won’t do anything. It’s not going to unlock like the previous episode where we talked about data sitting in like silos and lakes and warehouses, unless there’s an incentive in place. Why would a company share the data? If they’re not going to receive some sort of annuity stream for it, right. It’s in their best interest just to keep it private to themselves.

Alexander McCaig (08:50):

So when you actually go through the educational process, and this is what I was telling them in terms of the policy, and because they want to continue to have conversations with us about how that policy actually gets crafted. And I’m quite thankful for it. I think it’s fantastic. But I said that you need to always remember.

Alexander McCaig (09:06):

And I had to remind them of this is that your governments, your businesses do not function. They do not get data, nothing without interaction of your citizens. So at your core, your focus should not just be on the G to B, right. Or B to G scenario between business and governments and sharing public datasets. It should originally start off with the education of the citizens first and helping empower them as a collective because they’re the ones that have the interactions with the businesses and the government. You guys wouldn’t have data if it wasn’t for them. So if you can open up that sort of sharing and start to build in that culture, now you’re going to have a winning solution. And I let them know is like, you, you have these certain they put out a report and I’m like, okay, these are kind of your friends that you see with the adoption.

Alexander McCaig (09:53):

One is like, okay, well, one what’s the economic incentive two, how do you stop monopolies regimes? Okay. All the foundational principles of TARTLE it’s designed completely inhibit monopolies. Right. We open up incentives through giving people economic empowerment by sharing the data. And then on top of that they’re like there’s also variability of datasets. Well, Tartaloff has the ability to ingest any type of data. And at the same time we can ingest data on the machine code and then have it translated so that when a normal person looks at it, it’s something that’s readable. It makes sense. It almost like you put the nice filter or a lens on it. I was like, Oh, that’s really good.

Jason Rigby (10:29):

That makes sense. Yeah.

Alexander McCaig (10:30):

And so in the end, what that does is that increases the amount of sharing that actually occurs.

Alexander McCaig (10:36):

And so to further the conversation and they’re like that is very clear on like, I hope it’s clear and I hope it makes sense. And like, yeah, that doesn’t makes plenty of sense. And I just reminded them that, listen, we’re already in the European union. Our system is, and the question is, do you want to symbiotically with us right now, because we’re going to do it with, or without you and we’re here and we can do it in an efficient manner. Whereas you craft your policy, we help you, and we can tool our systems so that it works best for your citizens or we can just do it at a time. And you retool later trying to figure out your policy after it’s already been mass adopted by people outside of your control.

Alexander McCaig (11:15):

And then I got silence and then I got silence on the phone or the WebEx or whatever it was, and sitting there in silence. And like, okay, very good. And so, and that’s when they said, okay we want to actually bring you into, you know, talk about a continued partnership of sharing information and talking about this policy because right, the European union, even though they’re extremely forward on their policy with GDPR, right. And that big push that I did with it, and now they’re moving into this, this data spaces is that they actually lack data because it is so forward looking like three to five years in advance. They don’t have enough companies that are even doing what they’re even thinking about doing. So I said why don’t you just use us as that effective tool so you can test your policy real time.

Jason Rigby (11:57):

Mm. I love that. Yeah. And what was their, what do you think their biggest concern was? Whether it was spoken or unspoken?

Alexander McCaig (12:04):

No, they, their concern actually they’re they have a, they’re not really concerned about actually this. All right. I take that back they said their concern is data monetization. They said, people are kind of turned off from it. This is great. I’m glad you brought that up. They’re like people in the European union are kind of turned off, turned away from D the whole idea of data monetization.

Alexander McCaig (12:27):

And I said, guys, frankly, that’s not true. I was like, all my data here for our adoption has been higher outside of the United States. More in the EU and Asia than it is in our own hometowns. So I’m going to have to disagree with you just on pure data alone. That what you’re saying about data monetization, people are turning away from it. They are adopting it in floods. And so I thought that was quite interesting, you can hear it. This is great. The like the microphone picking up and you hear like the pencil dragging across the paper that sound? Like if you’re taking a test.

Jason Rigby (13:01):

Yeah. So they were taking notes?

Alexander McCaig (13:03):

They were taking a lot of notes.

Jason Rigby (13:05):

That’s good. That’s perfect. So like, when they’re expressing this and they obviously shared this idea of wherever they got it from maybe their data, our assumptions through it could be these higher intelligent think tanks and stuff like that, that they use. What were, what were some of the things that when they were talking to you, that you felt that turtle could solve? I know you shared some of them just now, but like the main things, as far as that would relate to them specifically with that concern?

Alexander McCaig (13:38):

I think the biggest solve for them is education and control of the data. Cause TARTLE, the second you begin to join the system and pull it in all your integrations with everything else you use. That’s when you start taking control. And at that point, you choose when to relinquish something that is huge for them. They think that that is just a normal, right. It’s a right to privacy. And it’s a right to sovereignty over the information.

Jason Rigby (14:01):

Well, we know that they did they’re they’re ahead of us, the impaired in the United States, as far as privacy concerns.

Alexander McCaig (14:07):

That’s exactly right. And so that was one of their main draws. And so what I did is actually walking through them this is how we have solved that. Right. So if you’re talking about that concern of data sovereignty and maintaining the privacy, we have this pseudo anonymous system, which means that you can choose to be as anonymous as you want. okay. And again, it takes that consent approach, which is pretty much what GDPR was built on. If you’re not giving consent, you can’t use it. And so we’ve foundationally put that in and said the entire marketplace.

Jason Rigby (14:34):

And so, I mean, when you explain that there probably was, you probably heard that more scribbling, yes.

Alexander McCaig (14:38):

Scribbling. I love it. It’s like when he used to take a test or you hear people writing in a library or something.

Jason Rigby (14:42):

So when they’re beginning to understand, cause it looked like they didn’t fully understand TARTLE as they began to understand it. And these puzzle pieces begin, and I can visualize it, like coming together during this conversation, what were some of the things that they were saying that they were excited about TARTLE with?

Alexander McCaig (15:00):

Well, they’re excited to see that we actually have generated enough data and we have created something real. That’s actually aligning with their policies. That’s exciting because for them they’re like, Oh our policy is doing good work. Well your policy did some work, but we were crafting this ourselves. You know what I mean? We’re only now just having this conversation.

Jason Rigby (15:19):

Free enterprises It’s working in full effect.

Alexander McCaig (15:21):

It’s working in full effects. And so, but I’m, like I said in the end, we’re more than happy to work with you, but we’ll do it with, or without you. I love dropping the hammer like that.

Jason Rigby (15:32):

And so the response at the end, what were they, what did they feel proactive?

Alexander McCaig (15:38):

Oh, they’re very proactive. So what happens is I had crafted a very large document for them and I took all their documents and releases that they had. And I touched on every single point of friction that they had and what their plans were and how TARTLE not only aligns with their goals of the roadmap, but also solves a lot of the frictional points that would prevent any sort of adoption.

Jason Rigby (15:59):

Yeah. That’s awesome.

Alexander McCaig (15:59):

What I wanted to do is make sure that when they went in there, I put them in a corner, not in a bad way, but to make things irrefutable. Cause I’m only interested in moving the momentum forward and getting things done.

Jason Rigby (16:08):

Yeah. And I think What people need to understand is at the end, the end goal for TARTLE is to uplift humanity and for people to take their data back.

Alexander McCaig (16:18):

Yeah. And I got to tell you that comment, you just said, it was very refreshing to hear that coming from a government entity. And I don’t know these people, I really don’t, they’re strangers as a collective, but it actually felt genuine. There was nothing, the conversation was an armchair quarterback. You know, it didn’t feel like much negativity came from it. Actually, there was no negativity at all. They weren’t fighting us on any points. It actually felt like people trying to learn and do better. And it was actually, it was refreshing to me to actually hear that.

Jason Rigby (16:48):

Did they have a different language or, I mean.

Alexander McCaig (16:50):

All speak multiple languages plus English. And then I’m like, I am a useless bag of meat.

Jason Rigby (16:57):

Oh, that’s so interesting. So, like as far as when you look at TARTLE and you look at European union and as we’re growing over there, as it is now, what are your hopes looking a year to three years out with TARTLE and EU what would you hope that would happen?

Alexander McCaig (17:14):

Oh, that’s, that’s good. I would hope that the partnership between our efforts and policy crafting becomes quite public and it’s not to do that for our own marketing purposes. I want to join efforts with people that think like us. And if you have such a truly a TARTLE and humanitarian approach. And you’re doing it specifically with data and you command all those resources, it would only make sense to partner with someone so that the voice can be heard and you can begin to educate multiple countries at the same time, and that’s how you want to educate. That’s how you really want to get the word out there. If you get, the vetting with a group like that, no one’s going to contend with it either way. It’s just what it is. Right. You know, and if you’re seeing that, you’re trying to do all that good. And you’re supported by such a large union of nations to do so. I think that’d be a quite a fantastic hope.

Jason Rigby (18:03):

Right. And, and so that’s what you’re using to the future of it being a partnership.

Alexander McCaig (18:09):

Yeah. And I hope that what we do taking on our higher moral higher, moral and ethical values with how TARTLE designed, even the fundamentals of it and our educational principles that continues to help craft the future for citizens outside of what my local perspective is here. That means I get it you and I get to touch the lives of people across the ocean all over the globe. Yes. Cause that the interactions they’re endless.

Jason Rigby (18:36):

Yeah. And I think that’s the beautiful part of how TARTLE can come alongside of whether it’s a business, a government, any type of identity, as long as, as long as we have cooperation for the same principles and even a business that may be looking at, at purchasing data from TARTLE. When we look at that section, like you said, where people choose to whether they want to be anonymous or not, it still gives value because you’re going to give tremendous value to the EU. TARTLE is all about giving value.

Alexander McCaig (19:08):

That’s all it is.

Jason Rigby (19:09):

Not even, not just to the EU or the businesses, that’s purchasing data, but to the point of the consumer itself saying, here’s your medical packet and I mean, to get a certain, a monetary amount for this through Bitcoin or however it’s approached.

Alexander McCaig (19:25):

Correct.

Jason Rigby (19:26):

I know there’s like a hundred different, there’s one the other day I saw that had like a cat or something on it.

Alexander McCaig (19:31):

Or the dog, that dog it’s so funny. It gets me every time, but you’re absolutely right. We’ve never taken the combative approach. You know, life is, if we truly want to do things properly, it’s a function of a collective efficiency. Right. If you don’t do things that unify, you only polarize things more and then you inhibit any sort of efficiency, much like a B-hive.

Jason Rigby (19:58):

Yes. Yeah. So to wrap this up, if you had to summarize, if you were standing before the European Union right now, and you had to summarize how TARTLE not only could benefit the EU, but how the EU could benefit TARTLE and what it’s going to do to uplift humanity, what would you, if you had a minute or two, because the podcast is almost done, what would you tell them?

Alexander McCaig (20:19):

I would say ladies and gentlemen of the jury.

Jason Rigby (20:25):

No, no. They have wigs.

Alexander McCaig (20:26):

Yeah. They all got their wigs on. I would let them know in the simplest sort of function. And I would rehash this every single time.I would say that the guaranteeing our future in the most positive light, the most efficient Utopian light that we would want to craft or could ever possibly craft within our imaginations only happens through the unification of our efforts. And if we are going to take the first step in the unification of those efforts in a world, that’s becoming increasingly decentralized, increasingly flat in a metaphorical way, then we should start with the thing that we all interact every single day with completely agnostically. If we are regardless of religion or type of entity, whether we’re a business or a human being, and that would be the information we create, if we have the ability to share it and analyze it so that we can create answers at a faster rate that helps secure our future.

Alexander McCaig (21:38):

Then I think the very first thing we should do is consider our relationship between a private enterprise here in the United States and the goal set by the European Union for the betterment of its people. How does that sound?

Jason Rigby (21:55):

Yeah, it sounds great. I, what’s the first part of the constitution here in the United States? We, the people, yeah.

Alexander McCaig (22:01):

We, the EU, we, the TARTLE slash EU.

Jason Rigby (22:04):

Yeah. I think at the end of the day, that’s what, that’s what TARTLE is about. And that’s the philosophy that makes us so different from any company that’s out there is it’s about the people and empowerment.

Alexander McCaig (22:16):

Yeah. And that empowerment that’s no cheesy way shape or form. That’s what will literally change the world.

Jason Rigby (22:22):

Yes. Changing the world, one data packet at a time.

Alexander McCaig (22:25):

Oh it was good. I liked that. I actually imagined myself there for a second. You know? That was good. Yeah. All right.

Jason Rigby (22:31):

It’s the water.

Alexander McCaig (22:32):

It’s the water. Yeah. Thanks Italy. Yes. See you later, everybody.